Did the founding fathers really want to give criminals the freedom to buy unlimited amounts of ammunition? Were they really protecting your right to buy 6,000 bullets on a whim?
As MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell discussed his latest Rewrite, Wayne LaPierre, America's top gun lobbyist makes it easy to get 6,000 bullets. And he hasn't said a peep about our country’s most recent mass murder.
All we got was a generic press release on Friday. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families and the community. NRA will not have any further comment until all the facts are known," read the statement.
He's the head of the National Rifle Association and he wouldn't even put his name on yet another high-profile NRA press release about a mass murder.
"Even when he deserves 24-hour media attention, Wayne LaPierre is the perfect picture of modesty," said O’Donnell. "Blood-drenched modesty."
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The LaPierre piece was simply inane drivel. O'Donnell is capable of much better commentary. Ranting as he did is an embarassment.
Who was the criminal that bought 6000 rounds of amunition? James Holmes had one traffic citation on his record before being collared behind the Aurora theater scene of one of the most horrific mass murder scenes in years...maybe coming only 2nd to the Norweigan slaughter where a downtown mainland bombing killed and maimed a dozen, and 92 youths were hunted down and shot with scores killed on an island of one of the developed worlds most strict gun law controlled nations.
The very fact that this deranged individual bought that amount of ammunition and had so elaborately booby trapped with homemade explosives (made from common household or industrial ingredients, perhaps) says his PSYCHOTIC mind was ready to go to war with his demons...its was criminal insanity, not simply a criminal act in buying the ammunition, O'Donnell. Don't you know this subject isn't going anywhere? Where is you attention to the family, friends, classmates, school of medicine instructors and physician who was treating James Holmes that did come alert someone in authority that might have taken a chance of being sued by a hungry trial lawyer or the ACLU hacks for possible infringment on this manman's civil rights by having him committed for psychiatric observation and treatment. That is the area of "libertarian law" that is at fault here, not the tools that the madman used.
1) Let me say - It is a question of attitude. The NRA killed those people just as surely as Holmes did. Holmes pulled the trigger and the NRA set up the conditions. The NRA did it with propaganda, words, lobbying and an unwillingness to address their attitude and message.
Let me say, an AR -15 is not a hunting rifle or a modern day deer rifle. It is a gun designed for our military not to kill but to injure PEOPLE. The only idiots that I know who use them as a hunting weapon, and I know of too many idiots, have seen their deer run over the hill to die a slow painful death several days later - wasted life and wasted meat.
No matter the method, ASSAULT IS ILLEGAL IN THE USA and all guns can be assault weapons as well as defensive weapons. It does not require automatic firing capability to be an assault weapon. It is how it is used. The guns in question are assault weapons because: 1) they can be rapid fire. They are rapid fire because of the type of ammunition used-high speed ammunition. Check the speed of a .223, .22-250, .222 etc. 2) They are designed to be used against PEOPLE, to inflict wounds but not to necessarily kill –again check the caliber AND the mortality rate in Aurora Colorado. Finally, the assault weapons of this discussion 3) allow the use of high capacity magazines that reduce the need of frequent reloading.
An assault weapon is able to pump out more than 60 rounds a minute – non stop. Holmes shot 72 people, killed at this point 12 (16.9% OR 1 IN 6). The police were there in 2 minutes (120 seconds). It is said that Holmes’ AR-15 jammed or there would have been more shooting. So in essence his AR-15 saved the day do to Holmes’ poor training.
I have been told by members of the NRA that the NRA is essentially the GUN SAFTY TRAINERS OF THE AMERICAN CIVILIAN POPULATION. Well they screwed up with Holmes. They screwed up his thinking (I have my rights), they screwed up his expectations (this will be glorious and brave) and they screwed up his training (this will be fun). Now they want to say: It is not their fault, it is not the gun’s fault, blame the trigger puller. But as a gun owner, Holmes deserved to be better served by the NRA. We the community deserve to be better served by the NRA.
2) Oh are you serious? I guess someone gave that fellow a lobotomy. I love the NRA they serve women very well.
3) Brian, you are wrong as can be. I am licensed for concealed carry and would NEVER think of doing what this guy did. He is an aberration - he was sick - he is the extreme exception - he could just as easily have driven a car into the side of a McDonalds and caused the same number of deaths, but chose to use a gun instead. No other words are necessary.
4) I need that sign for my Barber Shop.
5) Well stated, Nick. There are hundreds of 'assault' rifles in the hands of US citizens and they are not out there shooting people. The NRA did not cause this guy to 'booby-trap' his apartment or go to the movie theater and shoot it up. There is no one out there that is at fault for this shooting except for the shooter. I think that everyone should be at least licensed to carry...crime would drop more if legal citizens carried and criminals knew it!
6) I agree with you Nick. Didn't Luby’s change there stance on concealed Carry in their resturants after the shooting?
7) You missed the point, Nick. It is about the mind set, the attitude, the writing off the killer as just a sicko. Where did he get his mind set, his ideas and his license to do what he did? Who empowered him? That is what I am asking. I like my guns too; but these mass murder events virtually all take place in the USA. Why is that? It isn't because we are the only gun lovers cause we aren't. My opinion is that the NRA's job is more than just getting more guns into peoples hands. It is shooter education, taking guns away from sickos, defending our other freedoms as well. Like the freedom to walk into a "public accommodation' without getting attacked or killed.
Nick I wish you would have been there - Maybe you could have stopped him. No he didn't use a car but his weapon of choice was a gun - WHY? Maybe he could have been stopped - Why wasn't He stopped days earlier or even at the door?
Not everyone wants or should be licensed to carry. In those ownerships of 100,000s of assault rifles in America, how many are owned by short trigger sickos? Even though they have not yet broken a law, should we not try to defuse those bastards and get guns out of their hands? Do you just want to wait for the next Aurora Colorado to happen and say: " He is an aberration - he was sick - he is the extreme exception - he could just as easily have driven a car into the side of a McDonalds and caused the same number of deaths, but chose to use a gun instead. "?
If you haven't noticed, I have not attacked gun ownership. I have attacked unbridled gun ownership and those who incite unbridled gun ownership at all costs.
8) AH!!! Now you are getting into the crux of the matter - how to stop a person before it happens. I'm not sure that can be done with our system. We say that we are a society of free men and women, able to go about our business without interference, as long as we obey the law and abide by social norms. But wait, you say, this guy had to have manifested some type of mental aberration or breakdown that would have prompted him to seek treatment - but that is the very problem - Unless that person is a danger to himself or others, he or she cannot be compelled to seek treatment, without due process. This guy, by all accounts, acted in a perfectly normal manner, going about his business, just as you and I do every day. Our Bill of Rights GUARANTEES certain things - so as much as you would want to head off a problem, or defuse a situation ahead of time, in order for us to continue to be a free society, you cannot do that without due process. Anything else and we are not a free society and our Constitution is scrap paper.
9) And that is why we have cameras at every corner. Big brother is everywhere. And by all accounts this guy did not act in a "normal" manner. You call this normal? 1) He just dropped out of graduate school- no explanation. 2) He applied for gun club membership where the owner said he had a bad feeling about this. 3) He dressed weird at a movie theater and was carrying firearms? 4) He purchased 4 firearms in 2 months and thousands of rounds. 5) no one had any idea to which militia he belonged.
That sad thing is that the NRA is not even part of the dialog of this conversation. I am left believing your position remains: "He is an aberration - he was sick - he is the extreme exception - he could just as easily have driven a car into the side of a McDonalds and caused the same number of deaths, but chose to use a gun instead."? - Nothing I can do about it. I think however you could be a man of action.
10) ok, now you are just trying to justify your argument with 20/20 hindsight - this thread can go forever and get more and more far-fetched with each post - time to finish building up a computer.
11) My position hasn't changed. No hind sight here. I stand by my original statement. Don't be mad. I remember: No one is more blind than he who refuses to see.
12) Then open your eyes!
13) love the sign...need more people with concealed carry just for that reason.
14) to bad CO theater didn't have these. Crazy guy might have recieved some return fire
15) I have to agree Open your Eye's Guns do not kill People, People kill people there has to be someone behind the trigger good bad or indifferent someone has to pull the trigger. The person in CO did all this of his own free will Not the NRA nor The Government made him do it he was sick plain and simple.
16) I feel like the wording on our petitions should be revised, since I guess the question "Do you believe in the constitution?" is as relative in the liberal mind as "The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"
Bill I’m pretty sure the EGA that you have all around your shop say or at least imply the same thing
17) I made approximately 16 statements in this entire blog. Look how you responded. Rather then spit venom; tell me what is not true. I stated:
1.) The NRA killed those people just as surely as Holmes did.
2.) An AR -15 is not a hunting rifle or a modern day deer rifle.
3.) It is a gun designed for our military not to kill but to injure PEOPLE.
4.) Only idiots use them to hunt game.
5.) ASSAULT IS ILLEGAL IN THE USA.
6.) All guns can be assault weapons AS WELL AS defensive weapons.
7.) The guns in question are assault weapons because
a. They can be rapid fire.
b. They are designed to be used against PEOPLE.
c. They allow the use of high capacity magazines that reduce the need of frequent reloading.
8.) The NRA is essentially the GUN SAFTY TRAINERS OF THE AMERICAN CIVILIAN POPULATION.
9.) They (the NRA) screwed up with Holmes.
10.) The NRA's job is more than just getting more guns into people’s hands.
11.) The NRA’s job is:
a. Shooter Education.
b. Taking guns away from sickos.
c. Defending our other freedoms as well.
12.) Not everyone wants or should be licensed to carry.
13.) I have not attacked gun ownership.
14.) I have attacked unbridled gun ownership and those who incite unbridled gun ownership at all costs.
15.) By all accounts this guy did not act in a "normal" manner.
16.) That sad thing is that the NRA is not even part of the dialog of this conversation.
So what is not true? Why not? Then answer my questions:
1.) Where did he get his mind set, his ideas and his license to do what he did?
2.) Who empowered him?
3.) These mass murder events virtually all take place in the USA. Why is that?
4.) Why wasn't He stopped days earlier or even at the door?
5.) In those ownerships of 100,000s of assault rifles in America, how many are owned by short trigger sickos?
6.) Even though they have not yet broken a law, should we not try to defuse those bastards and get guns out of their hands before they hurt someone or themselves? –YES or NO
7.) Do you just want to wait for the next Aurora Colorado to just happen? -YES or NO
All your responses reflect what I would deem the NRA’s unwillingness to address their attitude and message. See what I said. See my questions. See my point of contention.
I know many of you and I have to ask a final question. I think you all are pretty smart and you are all pretty capable of taking care of yourselves; so why are you carrying the water for the NRA? You had your gun rights before the NRA came along. What have they done for you that you didn’t already do for yourselves?
Lot of blog space for what?
You are wrong about Luby's...the madman killer there walked into the Cafeteria shooting, he was not just another ordinary citizen carrying concealed. There were people in Luby's that when interviewed after that shooting incident specified that they were legal handgun owners, and they wished they did not leave their firearms at home that day as they thought they might have stopped the murderous shooting masacre of so many by one armed individual.
Hint...the police never come on time! They are simply arriving to late to make the difference, and their job is simply to do the mopping up after the criminals strike.
As to your discussion of the balistic similarity of the .222 Remington, the 22.250, and the .223 that is our Military round, but also a round used in target shooting and in hunting for varmints and game up to antelope and deer, especially for its long range capability, you are misinformed: the .223 caliber was developed as a spin off of the .222 and the .224 and the 22-250 hunting rounds. None of the other three are suitable for semi-auto or automatic fire due to their cartridge designs, but the .223 is.
Get educated before you try to come across as a know it all pompous arse authority, Brian Klammer.
Ok Lawrence, I get you are trying to promote an aggressive liberal agenda but to
imply that the NRA is somehow promoting this type of terrorism is just too much
for me. The NRA is for the abolishment of any and all gun laws but in no way are they pro mass murder.
I am a proud gun owner and i am proud to NOT belong to the NRA because i don't believe in their guns above all are most important mantra. I believe in sensible gun laws and certain restrictions.
I also truly don't believe that limiting the number of rounds a clip contains is
going to prevent mass murderers as you suggest. I believe that is a misguided ideology
and your over the top commentary is not up to par with many of your other intelligent
commentaries. You interestingly omit the fact that this demented individual
also rigged his apartment with 100% illegal homemade bombs that could have killed
just as many people and no law preventing bombs prevented that.....
I am not a friend of the NRA but I cannot and will not go so far to say that the
NRA is promoting mass murder as you have suggested….
Crazy and demented is crazy and demented and the number of rounds a clip can legally hold is not going to stop crazy and demented.
You are better than that!
Gordon, California has a law in place limiting the magazines to 10 rounds. This means the shooter must stop and reload. Stopping to reload gives others the chance to attack and interfere with the shooter. Definitely a plus in a case like Aurora. Magazines with 30 to 100 rounds are not needed by any citizen only the military. Many NRA members would like common sense laws that restrict the number of rounds and type of weapon. They could drop out of the NRA and work for those changes and they should. Lawrence is correct when he says the stubborn adherence to mayhem the NRA is practicing leaves them blood covered and responsible for contributing to the violence in our Nation.
There was an article in "The Atlantic" roughly a year ago, about gun control. The thesis was, that this had begun in CA with Reagan, when he was Governor, and the reason (motive) for it--the gun control movement, legislation--was to keep guns out of the hands of African-Americans because they were a real threat (though, horribly, Reagan was shot by a white man). Everything I have read about this issue tells me it is an issue forged in the period of civil rights in America and that it still revolves around, and emanates from, the historic battle of/for civil rights in America. I say it clearly: When the NRA claims, "This is about the soul of America," it is about civil rights, and hinges on racism. History not only teaches this; it spells it out; read back, take stock. Then read more.
Might make some sense. I was on a University campus during the late 60s SDS rallies and strikes and sit-ins and it seems that in answer to the local police and state police and campus security using things like billy clubs and teargas to control the rioting and campus building destruction that would often take place in those ardent anti-Vietnam War protests, the SDS had enlisted the help of a local Puerto Rican gang in the nearby city to come to the their aid. Seems these guys didn't have cars to get to the campus, but they did have bikes. And if you can't afford a car, or the mandatory auto insurance and the taxes, you can afford a firearm, and they brought them with them onto the campus to fullfill their role.
The juxtaposition of the Bachmann and LaPiere pieces alsoserves as a reminder that the republican party has great interest that these bat @!$%# crazies and their positions remain in the public eye and ear. The very presence of these honest haters makes the rest of the Republican positions and talking points seem reasonable and able to be considered the acceptable 'other side' of an argument. The Republican are slow to renounce Bachmann because they want what she says to lie out there like guano polluting and infiltrating the atmosphere. It never goes away. It is a reassuring fright - "See, funny, jolly, Jersey governor Chris Christie and likable senator Lindasy Graham aren't so bad, hmm?"
wow - @!$%# was censored. OK crap.
The fourth world war will be fought with sticks and stones, said Einstein. Stark wolves are effective defenses, when the securitate disarms the populace, until they go feral, under Ceuasescu's marble halls....now that's a diatribe.
Brilliant vision! Do you use drugs on a regular basis, taxfatcats?
I like Lawrence Odonnell. He's been in and around the inner workings of government for a long time so his opinions are mostly on the mark. He can lay down any kind of dialogue on wishes and I would love to see him and Rush in a showdown, or better yet Bill O'Reilly. I can just see the veins in Bill's head bulging.
The fact is Lawrence O'donnells comments, as vile and viscious as people on either side of this issue feel, has produced some needed dialogue on this kind of issue. Opponents to any changes to current laws want to just wait this out and let the furror die down. I like the idea of tearing the scab off this issue and maybe, just maybe people can come to agree and make neccessary changes that are fair and aquitable to all.
im lucky i live in central illinois ,haha,the worst place to live ,no right to conseal,only state to not have it,and chicago one of the worst cities for gun violence,shootings every day with magazines less than 10 rounds,oh butt we wont mention that,alot are revolvers,oh we dont mention that,98% stolen guns and felons or illegal people doing the shootings and drivebys,oh dont mention that,go after them with hard arrests ,and why did it take chicago to recall all the cops that shoulve never been let go after a girl that performed for the president got killed ,god bless her and her family,butt every day this happens and nothing was done until it was kind of a celebrity,every child or adult should be equally,please leave them working and stop the killings by the illegal carriers,not the hunters and back yard tin can shooters,or range shooters,leave us alone,its not the lage magazines its the carriers ,i cant unload,shoot, a 30 round magazine faster than most can shoot and reload 3 or 4, 10 round magazines,show how fast them guys can do that ,also a speed loader can be fast with a revolver,so leave the legal guys alone nail the bad guys,get off the magazine BS and go after the bad guys,also i just found out illinois is the only state with a FOID card,what a joke ,put that out in the media,why isnt it,i dont mind the other states going by that,itd shut up 75% of the people,you cant purchase a gun or ammo without one and you cant get one unless your legal to carry one ,tell everyone ,thats a huge problem thats easily fixed and would raise billions of dollors,literally,15.00 and it last 10 years,why isnt this put out there all that i mentioned would shut up alot of people and they need to know this ,not a bunch of BS,just 2 or 3 things out there in the media and a simple FOID card carried by legal citisens ,please get this out there so theyll shut up about lage capasity magazines which 99% of the everyday shooting that are done by small clip or revolver by illegal carriers with stolen guns ,put the purcentages out ther please,prove it to everyone with purcentages this please and show these guys shooting and loading the small capasity magazines and revolvers,there just as fast if nit faster,and comeon pierce ,thats not the first time youve shot,i couldnt do near that fast and i hunt and target shoot alot,also show the purcentage of crime rate after the legal people and states with the right to conseal,its helped alot ,and use all the drug money thats burned or stored to fight the bad guys,the illegals carrying the stolen guns,get them off the streets ,leave the everyday legals alone,thanks please get this out,the purcentages and showings,how can someone even think about trying to stop or even mess with someone legally using a gun for practice,hunting ,or protection,nail the guy doing the shooting out of the car,complane about him not us,thanks do me and the legal gun guys and ladies,alone,there making the gun dealers and factories and ammo makers extremely ritch by not doing what im saying ,show the evidence,thanks ,ratholer from illinois