Associated Press J.Scott Applewhite
File.
It's official: the Department of Justice will not prosecute Attorney General Eric Holder for contempt of Congress. In a letter to Speaker of the House John Boehner, Deputy Attorney General James Cole wrote, "we will not prosecute an executive branch official under the contempt of Congress statute for withholding subpoenaed documents pursuant to a presidential assertion of executive privilege."
The letter comes less than 24 hours after members of the House of Representatives voted to hold the Attorney General in contempt over his refusal to turn over documents related to the "Fast and Furious" gun running operation. Cole's letter goes on to cite two other instances (first in the Reagan and later the George W. Bush administrations) in which the DOJ took a similar position, arguing that the contempt statue doesn't apply to the president's claim of executive privilege.
In refusing to prosecute his boss, Cole states Holder's action, "does not constitute a crime." While the Justice Department won't be sending this case to the grand jury, Republicans (and a few Democrats) in the House have the opportunity to file a civil suit against Holder.
All of this comes on the heels of President Obama's Supreme Court victory on healthcare. The timing of Holder's contempt vote leads some to argue that this was a political move spearheaded by House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa. This also comes two days after Fortune Magazine published a blistering article on the Fast and Furious operation, claiming that members of the GOP are blowing the gun running operation out of proportion.
In either case, it's not surprising that the DOJ will not prosecute Holder. There's obvious precedent and, really, who wants to make their boss angry by taking them to court?
Leave a Comment:
This whole "conspiracy" crap is total nonsense and just another distraction to keep from dealing with the important issues. EVERY ONE OF THESE CLOWNS IN THE REPULSIVE HOUSE NEED TO LOSE THEY'RE JOB COME NOVEMBER!!!!
you got that right I have made it a point to remember who especially the democrats are that did this.
These bonehead GOP jerks are the same slime sniffing Geo Bush's butt as he took us into Iraq and Afghanistan...they like this sort of thing...only not with a nappy headed prez....nuff said.
Amen! That was just a big circus of elephants without the music.
I agree "These bonehead GOP jerks are the same slime sniffing Geo Bush's butt as he took us into Iraq and Afghanistan...they like this sort of thing...only not with a nappy headed prez....nuff said." You said it just right.
@Augustus: When you are arguing a point, try sticking to the issues themselves. Attacking a person for their ethnicity and character only show you don't know enough about an issue, as well as your ignorance.
I am going to remember the Democrats that turned tail and sided with the GOP..I have decided what I am going to do election day...I am voting a straight Democratic ticket ,but being sure that the Democrats who have done nothing for the people for the last 4 years get replaced with new Democrats in their offices.
Way to stand up to the GOP led house and their grand-standing on this trumped up charge.... kudos !!
House Republicans must have been seeking a way to make their approval numbers dip even lower
I DID
If there were a contempt of country charge Issa would be the first to be prosecuted.
A waste of time. Maybe there should be law to dock their pay everything to pull a stunt like this. There are real important matters they need to get to.
Its all a waste of time I couldnt believe that those idiots took a baseball player to trail (Roger Clemens). DO they not have anything better to do?
I think that should have been stated the US House of Representatives will sue Eric Holder, Attorney General in federal civil court in order to receive a court ordered process of Discovery which will provide the access to the witheld documentation that either will or will not clear up the issues of why the Justice Departement provided Congress false information twice on this issue, and now is stonewalling on fessing up.
We are a nation of laws, and no man is above it. Legas procedures for compliance will continue.
As soon as the GWBush documents are turned over, I will agree that Holder should turn them over, but not before.
I don't see that YOU have any say it whether or not they get turned over, Jason.
If you think that Mr. Holder should be sued. Then you should agree, that the people that were stupid enough, to come up with such a stupid assed plan in the first place, should be sued too, right? If "Carma" should take over this @!$%#, every @!$%# that went along with this stupid @!$%#, will end up in the unemployment line.
Sorry Keith but I have as much say in it as you do, why is it you right wing folks think that things MUST go your way and that when anyone says differently you say that person has no right to speak?
You can make your ideas known, but the the point of my reply Jason was that YOU don't get to set the rules, which is what you implied you were doing setting up a quid pro quo deal as your argument.
Yet Keith YOU think YOU should make the rules, all I was saying is that IF you can decide how my tax money is spent then why can't I decide on how your tax money is spent? I guess asking for consistency amongst repubs is just to much to ask
Glad to see people across this country are paying attention to what these idiots are doing. The best thing we can do for the President and country is to vote them out at all levels. They've all been drinking the funny kool-aide
That contempt vote was a big circus of elephants without the music.
I agree when we start going after baseball players and atorney generals for liying to congress. I just dont understand what the big deal is about liying to congress. Holder clearly admitted that he lied why isnt that enough. Its ok as long as he admitted to it time for congress to move on.
What you are missing here is the WHY Holder and the Justice Department lied, and are now with the President's assistance are stonewalling until after the election Congress from finding out WHY they were lied to originally!
You are correct, yet you were singing a much different tune in 2001-2008, now why is that?
What ARE you talking about? It's nothing but gibberish coming from you here, Jason. Try to stay on topic, or leave this to the grownups.
So sorry for the confusion there Keith, What I am saying is you and your ilk are complete hypocrites. You whine, cry, and throw temper tantrums about things the Dem's do, yet the very group you back, the Repubs, are just as guilty if not more so. I know the years of 2001-2008 have been erased from your mind, but they really did happen. So I ask you in the simplest way possible, why did the GWBush admin lie? And were, with the POTUS's assistance, stonewalling Congress from finding out WHY the Congress was lied to in the first place.
I don't understand any of you guys that support Holder or the President on this failed operation, I am truly at a loss, this is our government breaking existing laws that have been on the books for years, sending guns across the border into Mexico, they don't even try to trace them, this was not a joint operation with Mexico, they never even told them they were doing this, ATF has NO jurisdiction in Mexico to arrest or prosecute any bad guys that they may have found with these weapons, we already knew they were bad guys to begin with. What would have been accomplished by tracing the guns to the drug lords ? No one has ever answered that question, why would it even be important to know what path the guns take once they cross the border ? You supporters, ask yourself why they never traced the weapons ?
Now look back at Watergate, a sitting President resigned over a burglary setup by members of the whitehouse staff, it is shocking to me that any one is willing to overlook for the sake of a political party, the fact that Officer Brian Terry was killed in the line of duty by one of the weapons our government let walk across the border, in violation of the current law. An Officer lost his life, a Federal law enforcement agency allowed the purchase to take place which would not have taken place due to current law, then they just turned their backs and let them cross over the border and you guys feel that, hey it's OK, nothing to see here, we didn't cover up anything.
As a man who served as a Police Officer for several years, as a man who placed his hand on a bible and swore and oath to protect and defend the Constitution Of The United States of America, seems to mean nothing to anyone who supports AG Holder and anyone else that was involved with this operation.
So much for a transparent government, I don't care what political party you belong to, when government becomes a secret operation and is allowed to cover up everything and everybody involved, it is no longer a government for the people, by the people. This was an operation that effects all Americans not just one political party, we should all be equally calling for full disclosure on this operation, ask yourself, what are they afraid we the American people will find out if they just turn over the + 80,000 pages they are still holding from Issa and the committee members ?????
Only the guilty need to hide behind executive privilege
Mac, you seem to believe the Fortune Reporters are privy to information that Congress and especially the House Committee on Investigations isn't? Seems to me they just repeated the same false information that the Justice Department was caught red handed trying to pawn off on the Committee, and didn't correct for over a 10 month period.
Also, there were a couple of small, well controlled sting programs conducted by the ATF under the Bush Administration's Attorney Gereral Gonzalez's direction, but they were 1) successfully conucted, 2) led to arrests, and 3) ended during the Bush Administration (not ended by Holder as you claim above!).
Fast and Furious was pretty much what the name entails, a violence prone rapidly conceived and promoted and executed program of running guns across the border in order to have them used in violent Cartel related drug war crimes, and then raise a hoopla about them. There were no controls, therefore. And apparently no accountability that we have been able to get to...no one brought to justice on it's workings to date. Just the kind of thing that lends itself to coverup accusations, hmmm?
Those of you who are new here, you should've heard Grandpa hollering a few months ago about the Zimmerman case and how not charging him with homicide was somehow defensible...
The common element in here is Grandpa is just doing his duty as an NRA shill; god forbid that outfit should be exposed for promoting the lax gun laws in Arizona that permitted semi-automatic weapons to be re-sold in Mexico (which has zilch to do with the Second Amendment).
And Grandpa, I see Michael Savage has suggested the reason for Chief Justice Roberts' "deviation" from the party line on the ACA Act is that Roberts has epilepsy and is on medication...
Assuming that's true, some of us here think you should consider talking to your doctor about possibly getting a prescription...
Yeah, we will see what tune you're singing Cab Driver when 1) Romney is elected and begings the repeal off Obama Care 2) Holder is dragged into Federal Civil Court and 3) Zimmerman is found either a) protected from further prosecution after a Stand Your Ground Law hearing before a Judge, or b) found not guilty by a jury of HIS peers.
I am aware of the Bush sting operation, I don't know who Grandpa is nor do I care.
Your comment
"god forbid that outfit should be exposed for promoting the lax gun laws in Arizona that permitted semi-automatic weapons to be re-sold in Mexico (which has zilch to do with the Second Amendment)."
Show that you have no clue of what you are talking about, you might want to take the time to read up on a subject before you comment , the existing LAWS we already have were ignored so these guns could be purchased, the existing LAWS would have stopped the purchase to begin with, so much for your Lax gun law comment, the second part of your comment is equally stupid, per existing law, only OUR federal government can sell weapons to Mexico or any country. This so called operation has everything to do with OUR 2nd Amendment and OUR rights as Americans, it had nothing to do with tracing guns through Mexico, because they didn't even try to trace them, it wasn't part of the plan, the plan was to allow these guns that on face valve look like they were Lawfully purchased, would then be found by the Mexican authorities, they would request trace information on these weapons, low and behold, damn they came back sold from a gun dealers in Arizona, then they can say, wow look at this big gun running hole we have in our border states, we need tighter and a lot more strict gun laws to prevent this from happening, unless you are a complete moron, you will notice that only so called assault weapons were allowed to be part of this operation, you just don't get it, they want congress to ban the sale of assault weapons first before they move on to other guns.
Wake up people, this operation had nothing to do with Mexican drug lords, it had everything to do with every American's right to gun ownership, that is what the President and AG Holder does not want us as American's to find out, they would have gotten away with this operation if it wasn't for a few brave ATF agents that saw this operation for what it was, once they knew that there was no plan to trace these weapons after they crossed the border, something was wrong and the operation wasn't about tracing gun to drug lords.
@mack..
Scare tactics and lies are the only thing that the GOP has..and they think that we are to ignorant to use google and check the Arizona Gun Laws.
Liars, Liars Liars...BS. BS. people wake up and do not vote the puppet Romney into office... His allegiance is not to America or it's citizens..But to big business..
And what about the NRA using blackmail to get the Democratic votes that the GOP received..I personally have lost all respect for the NRA..They have turned our Constitutional Right to Bear Arms into a big business that is playing a crap game with the American People.. Gambling for higher stakes and bigger profits is what they are about NOW..
LOL @ how fast & furious is REALLY a plot to take your gun. Those who spew this ignorance are clearly showing they have no mind of their own on this subject and that facts really do not matter. ---- " per existing law, only OUR federal government can sell weapons to Mexico or any country" YET what happened when somebody besides our Federal government sold arms to two other countries? Somebody sold arms to Iran, a country just 7 years before had captured our embassy, also somebody sold arms to a non government group in Nicaragua, and as I remember that group of somebodies got caught breaking the laws and I also remember what happened, they got pardoned. So I can only conclude based on your history that Holder should get convicted and then pardoned. TY
The NRA owns large shares in the manufacturing companies that make these AK7 assault rifles...It is all about the MONEY...without a war they are going to lose money...They don't care where the war is or what the reason behind the war..their only business and concern is their own bottom line of profits...
Wars are big business and the GOP members are highly invested in the profits from war business.. That is why they are looking for a reason to get involved in another WAR.....What about their portfolios? These WAR Mongers are going to start losing money...They don't care about the American people and the fact that millions have lost everything because of this mess. created by them during the Bush Administration..But not the GOP members who own lots of stock on Wall Street..They have been profiting hand over fist with hugh amounts of money coming their way into their bank accounts...
Ummm just what AK47 rifle making companies are you referring to, shailanwp? Or as I rather suspect, you don't know what you are talking about!
Let me try a gop common practice: If the guns were untraceable, how do we know for sure that the gun that killed the agent was one of the untraceable guns? -- See what I did there? After all the right wingers also think when the sun goes down that the sun has blown up, and think when it snows the Earth is getting colder.
Why is it gun nuts cry about how they must have guns and that guns are needed to maintain safety, yet when they shoot themselves or their kids kills himself with that gun, they get all sad? You folks are making the bed, when your own dies in that bed you folks think I should care about that, I dont, you folks want guns everywhere and have gotten it, so when you kill your own or they kill themselves, TOUGH @!$%#! you folks made the bed now sleep in it
Jason, there were two different ways to trace the guns. One was by electronic chips that would tell the tale of who they were trafficed, the other was by their recorded serial numbers as all guns are traceable. The only problem was that in this latter case, they could only be traced as the result of a violent act and a recovered murder weapon, and while there was only one US Border Agent that we know of killed, there were scores of Mesican authorities and citizens killed and wounded also, you know!
This is Watergate with a body count!
Glad to see you think there should be gun laws, but you have failed to answer your own simple and foolish logic, if the guns were untraceable then how do you know that gun was used? There was no video of the killing, for all we know it was friendly fire. In the end you guys tell us that a killing every so often with guns is good for us and that we needed more guns, yet here you are crying about one death, it is sad that you are so closed minded that you cannot even understand simple logic.
Can you not read English? The gun that was used to kill the US Border Agent had a SERIAL NUMBER, and it was matched to the list of guns sold or provided by the ATF for this program.
Then they WERE tracable, sorry but you folks keep saying they were untracable, is English really this challenging for you? Also how do we know the gun wasn't just planted there after the fact? If the admin is so bent on making gun laws by botching an operation, why wouldn't they simply plant the gun there? You have no proof that gun was used to kill that border agent. Besides nobody gets arrested for buying guns, selling guns, trading guns, & providing guns to any group at anytime, IF that were to happen you very same NRA boot lickers would be repeating the propaganda you are told to repeat. So I do not get it, are you in favor of gun laws or not? Sounds like you are since you are so concerned about one gun out of 300,000,000 guns
Not even close Grandpa (note to Mac: Grandpa Fuzz--after the Mort Walker character Lr. Sonny Fuzz--is my "affectionate" nickname for KL; I thought about Frank Burns, but decided to borrow this one because I don't think Burns would've been bragging quite so much about his military service during the Cold War). The guns weren't provided by the ATF; they came from a seller in Arizona...
The ATF knew such firearms had been "straw purchases" in Arizona that were then re-sold and smuggled into Mexico; two were found at the site of Agent Terry's murder, but no forensic connection was established. Such transactions cannot be prosecuted in part because of lax laws, and worse, lax prosecutors. Anybody who's watched the dog and pony shows featuring Arizona's public servants (see, Arpaio, Sheriff Joe, and Brewer, Governor Jan, as examples) has no trouble wrapping their noodle around the problems the hot sun causes in the Grand Canyon State.
And Fuzzie's logic is such an exemplary example of deductive reasoning. We were first treated--in between bouts of rhetorical diarrhea he apparently treats with Nyquil--to a brief history of how the Nixon Administration used "Executive Privilege" to cover up Watergate. He followed with the lame assertion the Obama Administration must therefor be doing the same with the same rationale (See Equivalency, False). Okay, history time: The Court in Nixon vs. USA ruled 8-0 that the president does have executive privileges, but concluded the public's "right to know" outweighed it. There's no parallel. Issa has admitted he has no evidence to connect the President or his attorney general to the operation, whereas there were proven ties between the "Plumbers" and men such as E. Howard Hunt, G. Gordon Liddy, and CREEP.
Current GOP = Insane clown posse.
Mac, obviously you didn't read the Fortune report. The U.S. didn't send guns across the border. No one ever said that this was a joint operation with Mexico. The guns were purchased by straw buyers, unknown to the ATF, usually under the age of 18, who then went on to sell them (on their own without any assistance from the U.S.). Unfortunately, due to our laws, this is perfectly legal in the neighboring states. The ATF was hampered from prosecuting these buyers by the laws in the states where those guns were purchased. . The tragic death of Officer Terry is disgustingly being used by the Republicans to rile up the masses. He was not killed by guns sent to Mexico by the U.S. This program was started by the Bush administration and was stopped by Holder. Attorney General Holder sent a letter with the information deemed accurate, and when he found out it was not, sent the new information. Nothing was done secretly. Since Mr Issa and Mr Boehner continue to say that they have no proof (after 7,800 pieces of information and 9 meetings) that Holder and/Obama have done anything wrong or illegal, that should be it. The information that Issa seeks may have information dealing with informants, and even if it doesn't, the fact that it is not information pertinent to the case, and they are not entitled to it. The House certainly doesn't have a problem with transparency. You can see right through them and their antics. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be as ridiculously funny as Rubio telling every reporter in sight that the IRS is going to get US ALL because of the health care mandate(not true) and EVERYBODY is gong to lose the health care they already have (not true again). This Issa thing is a diversion, along with the health care falsehoods, etc., etc. to keep them and their puppet Romney from having to actually talk about anything substantial during the coming election.
Thanks LD; here's one link to a summary of the Fortune story.... There are lots of them out there...
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/fortune_fast_and_furious_gun_walking.php
We'll see if Mac has the stones to read a few of them...
Imagine...your parents probably told you not to believe everything you read, but there you go again...kind of a Pete and Repeat action here by leftgwinger LD and the Cab Driver trying to come to the defense of Holder and the Pres on this one!
Well, I'm kind of proud to be on the same side as Brian Williams on this one...
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/48021184/#48021184
"Fast and Furious" Agent: 'The Criminals Have Won'
'Nuff... Grandpa has been felted again. He'll holler that the goobers among the House Republicans can determine whether there's been a cover-up--even though Issa admitted on national news he had no evidence--but when one of the ATF leaders in the Justice Department says "no way," he quickly pops back into his cuckoo clock...
Knock yourself out buddy on who you believe, but then ask yourself why they will not release the approximately 80,000 documents they are still holding from the committee ? what is in them that they do not want us to see?
Unlike you, if this was a Republican administration and AG and they did the same operation, I would still be calling for these documents to be released.
No one has yet to answer, why were guns allowed to cross the border? This was not a joint operation with Mexico? we have no jurisdiction in Mexico? the couple of examples of a few guns that were picked up before the border, is just that, the bulk of the guns in this operation were lost and crossed the border. As for the agents that have made statements, well I would expect that since the ATF and this operation is under investigation, I am sure that it was well scripted.
The big question to me as an American, What was the REAL reason this operation was carried out, since the ATF and the Justice dept have no jurisdiction in Mexico, why was this operation done and until they release the documents, we as Americans will not know.
LDMorris, you may or my not know, persons under the age of 18 are not allowed to lawfully purchase firearms, which is another example of how the ATF ignored our current laws for this operation to even happen, I will not even go into how the ATF forced the gun dealers to take part in this operation, it is once again another example of a government using it's weight against lawful business.
All you supporters, if this is about nothing and the republicans are full of $hit then all of you should be calling for these documents to be released UN-editted and prove all of us wrong.
I will be waiting for you to join us in our request for a fair and transparent government.
"but then ask yourself why they will not release the approximately 80,000 documents they are still holding from the committee" --- but, but, but Mac you folks told me 2700 pages in the AHA was simply way to many to even begin to understand, how on Earth do you think they could ever go through 80,000 and survive?
Nobody is going to have to read through 80,000 documents, and they already narrowed the time period that some 7,000 documents were produced at the height of the coverup activity. And, many of the documents will have redactions (blankened out passages); many of the documents that were turned over previously were totally redacted. And there will be staff and time enought to digest what is turned over eventually after a court orders it. So again, Jason, your juvenile logic you are so proud of displaying fails you!LOL!
but but but Keith 2700 was simple too many for you guys to even read much less understand it, how do you think you can survive 80,000? Or even 7,000? Just in case you did not know 7,000 is MORE than 2,700. Also redacted papers give you a problem? Funny but that was not the case between jan.2001 and jan. 2009, during those years redacting was done to protect national security, so I guess going by your own logic, you guys want to harm national security
One: you can't read and digest how 2,700 pages of new wide reading Law of the Land is to be written in 24 hours, Jason.
Two: National Security is certainly a justifiable reason to redact documents based on classification.
Three: Fast and Furious was not in any way a national security issue with related classified information.
YOU'RE OUT! Next Batter!
Yeah 24 hours ago the Law was passed LOL. OUT on 3 balls and no strikes, what is this the Roberts Court?
Yeah, three balls and no strikes, and two runners scored on a wild pitch, one all the way from first after the silly throw to third wound up in left field...
GOP House members now have the same likability rating as stink on @!$%#
This action taken against AG Holder is all about where's the money? If you noticed that with no proof or evidence that Eric Holder had anything to do with Fast & Furious, it seems to me everybody is talking about everything eles but where's the money. Thats why Issa wants to get into those files he's not suppose to see or have the authority to see, so he's pissed. He wants to know where's the money, dam the guns. Who stole all their money? Somebody has to be held accountable for the stolen money over in Mexico, so where the republicans money? Because they want their money back. Anytime a person like Issa will confess that there is no evidence at all, it's about where the money at? I'm just sayin*:)!! The Fortune mag story is good, but she didn't talk about the money, where is it?
"When Romney is elected......." Romney has lost the election. I don't understand why the Republicans have not analyzed the chances of Romney winning in November. It is not uncertain. Instead I have analyzed a series of factors that go into a presidential election and have been accurate everytime except one time. My method has been refeine and I can assure you that Obama will win the nex election. What is I do not understand is why the Republicans cannot do the same analysis and realize that Romney cannot win and as a result nominate someone else. I predicted that Bush would win both times. Therefore it is not based on emotions. I cannot predict to what extend Obama will win, but if the Republicans are not careful it could be by a landslide. At the present I think it will be close, but Obama will win. Remember me! Remember what I said. AT this time Obama could easily quote from Phantom of the Opera to Romney, "My power grows stronger over you!"
As soon as all papers are turned over from the Bush years, then and only then, should Holder do the same.
They are not going to turn over the Bush year documents....They are as full of lies and manipulation as we see Romney spewing out of his mouth everyday...Manipulating the facts to suit his own agenda...Bush and his cabinet did it and got us into 2 wars that should have never been...That is why we have the CIA and the undercover agents around the world? A war is not required to go after and to get someone anywhere in the world and we do not have to start wars to succeed. Now Romney has the same cabinet members who helped Bush to create a WAR for a money making machine for the top 1%.
They need to be fired,Look at Karl Rowe and Enron,an everything else they have done and are doing, Clowns
They are giving America ,a bad name
LD, do you believe everything you read or hear on TV, no matter how ludicrous? The reporter for Fortune wrote and stated that under 18 year old kids bought up to 50 AK 47s at a whack as "strawmen buyers" and then passed them along to gun runners to be resold in Mexico. Do you seriously believe that if that happended even once with the purchases by one under 18 yr old kid of assault rifles in that number that serious invesigation wouldn't have been launched immediately? Where are the "kids" she claims she knows managed to pull this off...did she have any names? Where are the copies of the e-mails and documents she claims to have seen? Did she specify how she was able to see what the House Invesigation Committtee was not able to see? Don't you see how absurd that all sounds? But you're ready to take her at her word for that? Why, because she is an honored member of the press? Give me a break!
I'm willing to bet that some guns were purchased in AZ gun shops, and then went underground. That set the stage. Then I'm betting that to make up the thousands that were supposedly traced to resellerss in Mexico by the gunrunners, one would find that they came from a more nefarious source....perhaps the ATF operatatives themselves? That's the sleight of hand! And there is information in the Justice Department internal investigation that says so is what I'm betting. And that's the coverup! The stonewall includes feeding crap to a gullible reporter to gain time. Just another brick in the wall, and to have a voice to counter the whistle blower. The Justice Department has already been caught lying twice by the House Investigations Committee. Do you think that will be the end of their lying ways? Wake up, man!
Keith said "Do you seriously believe that if that happended even once with the purchases by one under 18 yr old kid of assault rifles in that number that serious invesigation wouldn't have been launched immediately?" ---------- What planet do you live on, guns can be bought anywhere anytime by anyone, thanks to the NRA
Not assualt rifles in quantities up to 50 at a whack by under 18 year old kids, Jason. The FBI would be on it as a possible terrorist activity with laundered money at its fount if that even happended with an adult, Jason, as well as the local authorities and ATF. And, there certainly are laws that if enforced uniformly restrict the sale or firearms to those who have a legal right to own them. And restirct the number of firearms that can be purchased at a time. Another shocking display of your ignorance on this subject, Jason!
What the Fortune Reporter wrote and is talking about on the liberal news shows is FICTION! Part of the campaign that Fast and Furious was meant to ignite, to change the laws and ban the sale of so called "Assault Rifles", which may be no other and military look alike US Colt AR-15 .22 rimfire small game and varmint hunting and target and plinking rifles, or a US made Sturm Ruger Model 14 in .308 Winchester used as a Ranch control rifle and/or bear, deer or wild pig hunting rifle in our rural areas. This is why 17 Democrats joined the Republicans in passing the Contempt motion last week, Jason.
Wrong Keith, there are no gun laws that the NRA supports and you making up a stance doesn't cut it. The NRA is against any gun laws, and yet in your fantasy world, you think somebody somewhere at sometime will actually get arrested for buying guns illegally. Also, so what you are saying is the Obama/Holder team botched this on purpose? You folks are insane
And, there certainly are laws that if enforced uniformly restrict the sale or firearms to those who have a legal right to own them. -- And restirct the number of firearms that can be purchased at a time. -- Not assualt rifles in quantities up to 50 at a whack by under 18 year old kids -- All said by Keith, you spew these things as if somebody ever gets arrested for them, they do not, why? B?C the NRA has said guns are good, guns save lives. You say there are laws restricting firearms, but where? when are they enforced? Why does the NRA want to repeal those laws? You say there are restrictions to the number of guns that can be bought, but again no proof, no cased in court showing anytime anywhere getting arrested for this. You say not assault rifles to under 18 at 50 at a time, yet again there is no proof, nobody has been arrested for this, and the NRA would change those unused laws if they could and will one day.
I'm done with your childish ranting, Jason! You defeat yourself by displaying your ignorance of the real world every time you post.
Missed your answer should there be more gun laws or not? Also Keith every time you attempt to insult me, just makes me feel better about showing you how much you are wrong on this subject. you are the typical right winger, you simply insult when backed into a tough spot, never actually debating any facts, just pure hate.
And, there certainly are laws that if enforced uniformly restrict the sale or firearms to those who have a legal right to own them. -- And restrict the number of firearms that can be purchased at a time. -- Not assault rifles in quantities up to 50 at a whack by under 18 year old kids -- All said by Keith --------- Yet Keith has not shown ONE case of this happening, not one. Just another paper thin straw man
Jason, you missed the big point of this discussion, there are already laws on the books for straw purchases, they are illegal, for this operation to take place, the existing laws that would have stopped these purchases were ignored so they could take place, then they just sat back and watched them cross the border. What does that have to do with the NRA, the law already existed.
The NRA does everything possible to freak out the entire world, they own congress, the write all gun laws, they cry at the top of their lungs when someone like me says there should be more gun laws, they are responsible for more violence and terror tactics every day than any other lobbyist, and only second to the cigarette lobby in actual deaths. I think the NRA has a lot to do with it, which is why "the existing laws that would have stopped these purchases were ignored so they could take place" as you said.
Then you agree with me that this was a operation that had only one objective for the Obama administration, More Gun Laws. Since the existing guns laws would have stopped these sales, that wouldn't help them get More Gun Laws. So if the existing guns laws work, no one is requesting that the straw purchase laws over turned or removed. So it doesn't matter to you that our Government created this entire operation so they could attempt to pass more gun regulation, which effect all Americans Constitutional rights. The NRA fights for the rights of all Americans whether they are gun owners or not, the last time I checked the Bill Of Rights belongs to all of us.
NO, I do not agree that Obama tried to make more gun laws. Really you think this was a designed failure? Bill of Rights does belong to us all, and do I not get my part of that also? The NRA does not fight for what I believe. The NRA doesn't fight for what their own members believe.
So you do not believe in the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ? NRA members don't believe in the 2nd Amendment ? What is the NRA fighting for that the NRA membership doesn't believe in, if the NRA was not working on behave of it's members, it would loose it's membership, but instead it's membership is the same if not growing.
And yes this whole operation was designed to create a false gaping hole for gun trafficking, that at best was a small hole with few weapons at a time passing through it, but as Holder found out when he went to congress 35 days after Obama was sworn in, congress had no stomach to work on any new gun laws, which included members if their own party. So how do you get support for more gun regulations, with one of these types of operations, they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for the ATF agents that turned whistle blowers, they didn't trace the weapons because they needed the Mexican government to request firearm traces when these guns were found in Mexico, the trace information would come back as legally sold in the United States for lawful gun stores along the border, but the guns were only sold because the government ignored existing laws against these type of purchases. Once they had all this trace information, they could return to congress and claim that we have a huge whole in the border upon which assault weapons are flowing over, they will forget to tell them that, in fact they themselves created the hole.
It is obvious that you were not paying attention when the ATF told a Senate panel that the 90% of guns found by the Mexican authorities came directly from the US via our border, the ATF agent told the panel, I do not know where you got the 90 % figure from, that figure did not come from us.
Mac-663362
So you do not believe in the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution ?
Seriously where do you get that from? But after reading you think this was done on purpose really shows you have not thought it through. So according to you GWBush messed up in Iraq to show how much more we need war.
Also, so glad you are concerned with gun deaths, which is odd since you favor guns for all
so you got nothing, I never said I favor guns for all, I don't know where you would get that idea, and before you even come back with some lame comment that the NRA supports guns for everyone, then I know you are not capable of having this conversation, the NRA has since I have been a member has supported and will continue to support tougher sentences on any one that uses a gun during the commission of a crime, NRA has pushed for instant check system for lawful citizens to purchase firearms, waiting periods should be for first time gun buyers, I am a competition shooter so I own several guns, since I already own guns, why would I need to wait for another gun, it is the stupid thinking that if I was going to kill some one, I would only do it with a brand new gun, instead of one I already own, but once again these laws were written to put up road blocks and hurtles for law abiding citizens.
I have thought it through, since you have nothing, I can tell you when Holder went to congress seeking support for a new assault weapons ban, notice that all of the guns they let cross the border were so called assault weapons, it didn't take Obama very long to go back on his campaign statements, I am not interested in taking away American gun rights, well that lasted a whole 35 days, this operation was put together after Holder went to congress and was turned away, not only was he turned away, but members of his own party signed a letter stating they were not going to support any efforts to re-instate an assault weapons ban, so they held some stupid hearings on this make believe 90% of weapons found in Mexico were direct purchases from border states, they were set straight by the ATF, which stated that the bulk of the weapons picked up in Mexico came from South America, some of which were weapons the US government originally sold to governments in South America. So now what do they do, they made political promises they can't keep, thus this operation was born in an effort to convince congress that we have a serious problem on the border that requires more stringent gun control measures.
If you say so mate.