Throughout his political career, Mitt Romney's comments on the Vietnam War have evolved. MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell takes a look in the Rewrite.
Romney rewrites himself on Vietnam
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Thu Jun 7, 2012 11:56 PM EDT
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About The Last Word
The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell airs at 10pm ET, Monday through Thursday on MSNBC. The show channels O'Donnell's extensive background in politics and entertainment.
Hi Lawrence, saw your rewrite today, "romney-vietnam". Great reporting, as a 1969 era Vietnam Veteran, I can understand all of the fears related to being "deployed". We volunteered and served with honor. Romney is a wash-out at best, will never make it as POTUS, does not have what it takes, in a way, perhaps it was a blessing that he did not deploy to Vietnam, more of our troops may have been killed due to his ineptness.
Only one man in this Presidential race had the moral strength to vote his conviction and stand by it when it was unpopular to do so. President Obama voted against the Iraq invasion that was based on lies. Anti war people were talking in whispers, people were told they were anti American but President Obama had the courage to stand up.
Now that is a President.
Obama said in 2007 he would put on "comfortable shoes" and walk a picket line with union members if be became president.
Wisconsin happened and where was Obama?
How about closing Gitmo? Or drone killing people at will (and you thought waterboarding was bad).
Or 5 trillion more in debt?
Now that is a President
Who took us into the massive debt ? Deregulations, unneeded wars. Who is obstructing everything this President is trying to do and BRAG about it ?
President Obama took a country that was in financial shambles, you can turn the tide in 3 years maybe not in 8 but at least he is trying. Just name one good thing that the previous administration did for the American people. All not just the super rich.
I am the same age as Mitt Romney and served as an Air force Seargent from Sep,66 to Sep 70 . There was a lot going on besides Viet Nam, the Cold War and the capture of the USS Pueblo. There were 310,000 troops in Europe , 55,000 troops in Korea and 50,000 in Japan and 565,000 in Viet Nam. But Mitt Romney wanted no part of it. Mitt Romney=Conscientious Objector !!
Bravo Lawrence. There are many times when your rewrite can get long winded, overly flourishy or edgy, while managing to make it's point anyway. But not last night Lawrence, when on June 7th -- with measured emotion and intellectual control, you articulated Mitt Romney's spurious dance with the facts of his military service throughout his political career. You did it in a way that underscored how his inbred sense of entitlement has allowed him to articulate - with abandon - whatever position or attitude fits any particular moment in his life. But what brought all that home in the biggest way, was your undisguised - however subtle - contempt for men like Romney who would hide beyond moral righteousness in their support of war, while dedicating good portions of their life to systematically avoiding actually serving in that war.
I share in no small way, your outrage, and, dare I say it, a flurry of contempt for the almost businesslike efficiency Romney pursued as his goal to evade serving, while continuing to exude what he felt was a requisite enthusiasm for the Vietnam war effort. This easily-lived-with-disparity on the part of Romney belies a man accustomed to accomplishing his ends in life with an easily accepted acknowledgment of the status he was born into ... how it raised him above the fray ... and how effortlessly comfortable he was with his own convenient assessments of himself. Even then, as now, "the truth" is always fluid with Mitt Romney.
Lawrence, by bringing weight and a somber grave life-and-death subtext to the final minute of your speech, you managed to heighten the contrast between a thoughtful man's understanding of this issue, and that of a man who not only lacks depth, but fails to resonate with any sensitivity or decency. Instead, he displays a convenient sense of correctness, when he should be expressing something more anchored in the depth of war's moral uncertainties ... and basic ideas about right and wrong. I found his shallowness not only disturbing, but like you, conveniently timed, and not a little provoking too.
After watching your rewrite tonight, I am hard pressed to imagine anyone who has served in the U.S. military who would consider voting for Mitt Romney. Romney's myriad responses to questions of his service, the facile and unexacting ease in which his constantly shifting positions -- timed suspiciously with that war's ebb and flow -- all contribute to my own disdain for this man's arrogance, his sense of personal prerogative and the permissions he grants himself so easily. Over the past few months, we have been learning how much Romney lies. Now, we all know how much he lies ... to himself.
Very well done Lawrence ... very well done
Michael Fish, Los Angeles
This reply to LO rewrite on Romney and Vietnam was fantastic...I just loved it! Mr Fish, you said everything about Romney that I have always thought of him...Many people think Romney is a liar and yes he does lie to himself..thank you for all your thoughts on that man...I am with you 100%...
Regarding Bill and/or Hillary Clinton, oddly celebrated by some liberals: I understand that there has been no public discussion of the horrendous consequences of Clinton's welfare agenda, and this isn't the place to begin detailing the damage. What I can say is that many Americans understand that Clinton's welfare "reform" was a calculated and necessary step toward similarly wiping out Social Security, and this is a matter of life or death for so many Americans. (It's worth noting that over 80% of AFDC recipients relied on welfare only until their children began school, after which they became taxpayers, and yes, it is entirely accurate to say that they paid for welfare the same way we pay for Social Security.) Sometimes we could also discuss the damaging consequences of such policies as NAFTA, and examine Hillary Clinton's own writings regarding the use of impoverished families as super-cheap (replacement) labor, i.e., workfare.
Just to add more to your list, though as you say this is not the place to begin detailing such, consider the damage of Clinton's 1999 Citicorp Relief Act that set the stage for Bush to run his economic play that got us to where we are today.
Wow! Just plain, Wow! Really powerful. Well done. You touched the core of man and his private fears. Again, "Wow!"
This is great Lawrence. I cannot believe it. This is the same thing I told my grandson after he graduated from high school. What I said was if Romney gets in the White House, he is already talking about sending people to war although he nor his sons ever served in military service. This man would not have any problem sending the military off to some war. Although Obama has never served in military service I feel he tries to minimize the use of our military men and women. What I have seen of Obama is he tries to lead from behind and working with other countries for compromise. I also realize sometimes compromise is not an option but to openly say if I get in the White House we are going to war I cannot honestly tell my grandson the military is a good option. The same old reason is there. As long as Romney was using his religion as a determent for getting out of servicing the country it is OK but when a African American (Ali) said the same thing he was guilty of not servicing his country. This is 2012 and nothing has changed. I can believe that if one of Romney's sons said he wanted to service in the military, Romney and his wife would find a way to keep the boy out of military service. The only thing I can say thank goodness there is no draft in 2012. Yes I remember those days of Muhammed Ali and I also remember the days when my husband served in Viet Nam. Now here we are and find out this man did all he could NOT to serve in the military. It makes me very very angry. Fortunately my husband came back but there were many that did not and there are always those that never went. What was the name at the time? Oh yes DRAFT DODGER. What is that Romney is saying today. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Obviously not. Romney and his family went to a lot of trouble to keep him out of military service and today not a single one of his sons has served in military service. Why? Same old what's good for the goose and gander (Romney and Sons).
you hit the nail on the head, i think people are or must be living under a rock to think willard even gives a hoot about the economy all he wants is to say he had made it to the top, the Presidensy and he has no ideal on what that position really mean or the responsibility it curtails,running a corrupt business is one thing but running a country is a whole different matter,he runs on the platform of bigotery and predjudice as was in the 1960 and other third world countries are watching at the United States the so called peace maker of the world and watch they are going to judge us and that what the 1or 2% have done will support their opinion and they won"t give a hoot about us
Gladys,
Tell your grandson Obama authorizes using killing drones on innocent people.
Tell him the truth, the whole truth.
Ask his opinion about that or your lesson is wasted.
Maynard the whole truth is I am advising my grandson not to serve because people like Bush who went into something with the truth to invade Iraq. Did Bush ever find weapons of mass destruction? After Bin Laden said he was responsible for the bombing in the US why was the US in Iraq? It was even said Bin Laden was not in Iraq so why were we in Iraq? Thousands of soldiers died and injured because of this stupidity. Oh yes billions of dollars spent. Bin Laden did not have a problem killing innocent people in America and I am certain there were innocent people that died in Iraq. So get real. The whole truth is there was tragedy. So Maynard it is OK for people like Bin Laden to kill innocent US citizens but the US is not justified to do the same unless it is somebody like Bush and Romney giving the order to destroy. So my lesson is not wasted. It all depends on who you want to believe and obviously Maynard your belief is if it is a Bush or Romney that is giving the orders to destroy then there is justification to kill innocent people. RIGHT MAYNARD.
My cousin tried to join the military during Vietnam and declared he was gay. He stepped across the line to join and was immediately put in jail. My uncle and my cousin spent many months in a nightmare trying to correct this situation. My cousin maintained he had an equal right to protect his country and his family. No one listened.
Barbara: I don't believe a word of that! If he declared in his pre induction interview he would not be administered the oath of enlistment. Therefore, there would have been no military justice action. If he came out that he was gay after his interview in which he would have been asked questions on possible disqualification such as drug use history, criminal behavior, health problems, or sexual orientation and after he took the oath of enlistment, he would have been under administrative action for separation, that would have led to discharge, not to arrest and incarceration.
Obviously, something is very wrong with your sensationalized story here!
Sure wish back then someone offered me 2 years in France knocking on doors getting the chance to ask some cute gal, "Do you believe in God”, well here I am. Of course I spent my year in SEA at a resort site in Northern Thailand, and now I’m retired there.
Lawrence... you have done one of the bravest things I have ever seen a man do. Since 2 tours in Nam, which have left me scarred for life, I have always considered those who did not serve for honest reasons, were a heck of alot smarted and, more humane than I was.
Your painful, journalism, succinctly pointed out why most of us, who followed Dante, could never accept Romney as Commander in Chief. I woudnt stand beside Romney at a picnik. You, Sir Lawrence, I would stand beside... inside the gates of hell.
You have rightfully earned my respect ,and admiration, until I leave this illusion we call reality
Bless you for your service, I haven't ever met someone who saw the hell of war and wasn't scarred. One of my brothers who did come home, could not stand the 4th of July and would sleep with a gun under his pillow for years. A sudden noise would immediately cause him to be in a hyper mode. He was too young to go, but believed the recruiters. I fought our local school when they allowed the recruiters every day to be in a lunchroom, with their clean good looking uniforms with their avoidance of exactly what these impressionable young people would be in for. And I won for awhile. Let our young see the whole story of war before sending them off to be maimed or killed, then if they still want to go, so be it. Let them visit a veterans hospital and talk with those fighting to regain some sort of life after serious injuries.
President Obama voted against Iraq, he had the courage of his convictions and stood by them at a time anti war people were speaking in whispers. Now that is a man.
A man that kills innocent people with drones.
Some man.
Maynard how many American soldiers were lost ? Would you rather it takes a platoon of Americans ? Do you know that President Bush told a child, "we don't torcher people all the while he was sending them to other countries to be horrible torchered.
Drones could have taken out Osama Bin Laden under Bush administration and they didn't, soldiers could have taken OBL at Tora Bora but weren't given the go ahead. These people you are feeling sympathy for killed by drones would be alive if the previous administration had done what Bush swore he would do.
Do you have the ability to do a better job of President ? If so, get on the ticket.
Lawrence's voice is God's voice. He tells the truth.
Mr. Lawrence, I'm not going to sing your prasies as the others apparently have becasue your comments were very offensive. To categorize Muhammad Ali and the other draft dogers who fled to Canada and elsewhere as courageious, heroic or anything otherthan cowardly and disgraceful does a servere injustice to those who fought and died or were wounded. I could care less about how Mitt Romney and other well-to-do Americans sought to legally avoid the war and I fully understand the reasoning of Mr. Ali and the rationale he used. Black americans couldn't ride up front, had to drink from different water fountains and all that racist crap would be enough for me to tell the Government where they could stick thier war too, but, DO NOT act as if they were couragious or heroic because they were not. Mr. Ali's stance had nothing to do with an honorable protest against the war, it had everything to do with the lack of civil rights for black america. Your use of MSNBC to pollute the minds of your listeners with left wing diatribe and so- called spin or lies (I refer to spin as a lie) makes you no better than Fox Newswho you and others have ranted about for years. Its laughable to hear the "lean forward" slogan and hear you and your comrades speak about saving the little guy or the middle class from the evils of republicans when you should be speaking factual truth so the american people or at least your viewers can be properly informed. I guess Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite are your heros too? Well, they did more to further the cause of the North Vietnamese and communism than anything the North Vietnamese, Soviet Union or Chinaese combined could ever had imagined. Jane making proclamations that our POW's were being treated good or Walter making his famous "the war is lost" comment were the propaganda drivers that allowed the North Vietnamese to win in the face of losing every single battle they ever fought against us and that includes the Tet Offensive which was a military blunder by the North that led to General Giap being recalled to save face! No sir, your comments were not great they were appalling and misleading at best. The propaganda machine of the far left is no better than the propaganda machine of the far right. Its a shame that uninformed viewers have to listen to crap like yours being expoused in an obvious attempt to further the far left wing agenda of the Deomcratic Party. Its a greater shame that your comments are not preceeded by a warning lable like: "the views of Mr. O'Donnell could be harmful to the heath of your mind and are designed to support the agenda of his far left wing political masters". I mean, we have warning lables for music, food and drugs; why don't we have warning lables about the harmful affect propaganda can have on the free thinking capabilities of the mind? You sir are no better than Sean Hannity or that ultra right wing propagandist on the radio.
Well said grparry...It blows me away how O'Donnell still has a show with the low ratings... the guy is an IDIOT
grparry and adam1: Your posts are sorely lacking as to using God-given reason, and entirely devoid of logic.
The ridiculouslessness of your numerous false claims are just too arrogant and ignorant to bother to answer.
I can see FOX/Limbaugh clearly imprinted on your brains, and perhaps the two of you should marry, to save two other unsuspecting people from lifetimes of misery.
Mr. ODonnell is a voice of clear truth and reason, and the fact that you can't see that is your problem, not ours and not his.
Lawrence great rewrite! As a Vietnam Vet (artillery) you were spot on! I find Romney and the whole Republican party dispicable. The chickenhawks ( Cheney, Limbaugh Nugent Hannity O'Reilly Bush Boehner McConnell) are always clamoring for war with someone else or someone else's children. Lets face it, these people are all cowards! Avoid the draft at all costs yet bring us to war for no good reason. I agreed with Muhammad Ali, I had no beef with the Viet Cong but I had no choice. Once my student deferment ran out I got drafted and that was that. In six months I was sent to Nam and it was especially hard as I'm Asian and I'm fighting against my own people. I also remember coming home and when my dad (a WWII vet) picked me up at SFO there were no alcolades; only weird stares and whispers. I went home and immediately trashed my uniform and medals. To hear these so called patriots clamoring for more war disgusts me. I'd love to see Romney's five sons the first to lead if he becomes president when he attacks Iran N Korea Syria or all of the above. By the way I use the VA for my health care and to my fellow Vets Romney supports the Ryan Budget which would cut 11 Billion from the VA! Wake Up!
Sammo sammo old leftist hypocrisy. The very folks that led the Bush bashing over the Afghanistan and Iraq war efforts that and that stood for protests against the Vietnam War and spat on the toops that fought there when they came home are now off on rants on the fact that in the early 70s when the ground war in Vietnam was pretty much run down, and we were withdrawing troops while maintaining stragegic air campaigns while working to stand up the South Vietnam forces under Nixon are disparaging Romney for not having asked for a draft deferrment while he undertook his missionary commitment to his faith.
O course, it helps if while disparaging his actions, you charletans of the left love to throw in a good measure of anti-Mormonism for good effect also. What a sorry buch of arseholes you leftist puppets of the spin doctors like O'Donnell are while he appears with such pompous fony sincerity as he chops at the anti-Obama candidate his network has bought lock, stock, and barrell. The same guy who won't appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the outrageous leaking for political gain of sensitive anti terrorism information heading into a dicey election...what a collossal political animal he is now!
No wonder far and away the polls taken of the men and women and their family members of the all volunteer military services doing your fighting for you now are behind Romney in large numbers; the great majority self reporting no confidence in their present Commander in Chief, the apologist Barrack Hussein Obam from Chicago's political mob!
So last night I was at the folks with the Romney "military service issue" on my mind, and I made the remark, "I don't know many Mormons who were draftesd."
Both hooted, with Pop--the retired rocket scientist--snorting, "No kidding!"
Background: my grandfather was the head of a local draft board in 1950 when Korea broke out. Everyone one of my dad's friends--Pop was in the National Guard and was called up--opted to go on missions.
My grandfather knew his duty and the score, and he drafted every one of them on their return, but by then conflict was largely over, and the so-called "ceasefire' (that still exists today) was in place.
Same thing happened here in Vietnam (I drew a high draft number the year I turned 19 and was classified 1-A). The local saints like to tout their patriotism, but Brigham Young--while Utah's territorial governor--tried to declare this area's independence from the United States (roughly 705 of Mormons at the time were English, Scottish, or Danish and not citizens). In defiance of the government, he closed the Overland Migration route, orchestrated a huge mass murder in Southern Utah, and only stood down when plans to evacuate to Oregon Territory proved unworkable. He essentially accepted a presidential pardon at gunpoint...
Now you were accusing the President of Chicago mob ties when I don't see any Italian or Sicilian in his blood (his mom was from Kansas)? Man, that's some Etch-a-Sketch you've got, Fuzzie...
And it's particularly asinine you've used it to ignore the First Lady's efforts to reach out and support military families.
You all might want to review the military records of all of the Bush 43 administration. Those are the folks whom Romney has hired as his advisers. We call them chicken hawks, but they really don't have any raptors in their genealogy. Strictly squawkers and pecking party sorts...
Consider Karl Rove: "Except for a lapse of several months, Selective Service records show presidential adviser Karl Rove escaped the draft for nearly three years at the height of the Vietnam War using student deferments."
http://news.neilrogers.com/news/articles/2004092003.html
Dick Cheney we all ready know about. Ditto Romney. And his pal, the Donald?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/29/donald-trump-vietnam-draft_n_855481.html
By the time his number (356) was drawn during the December 1, 1969 draft lottery, Trump had already received four student deferments and a medical deferment, according to military records on file with the National Archives and Records Administration. An extract of Trump's Selective Classification record, seen here, was provided in response to a TSG records request.
The über conservative National Review essentially agreed with that anlysis
Chickens of a feather, every one...
So, Keith, you'd deny that Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz conned the dim-witted W into invading Iraq and costing us a trillon dollars? As one who spent a miserable time in that unneeded and useless war in Viet Nam, I also thing you have a rather strange view of what went on there under Nixon. Also, from the tripe you're serving up here, I'd guess you were supportive of the swift-boat attacks on Kerry as well.
Is it leftist to question the privleges of the elite whose sons and daughters stay home while the children and spouses of the lower income groups put their lives and our limited resources on the line to vouchsafe the oil interests of leaders like Cheney, Bush and the wannabe Romney?
Antimormonism? Do you think a person out of work who can't afford to send his kids on for higher education because of the tax breaks that "...corporations are people" enjoy have sky-rocketed public education funding due to depleted tax revenues, really cares what kind of funny underwear Romney and his correligonist wear.
If you do, pal, I can see why you fostered this rant.
And oops, I forgot Newt Gingrich... Here's the skinny on Republican "patriotism."
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/chickenhawks.html
Look who else is on the list...
John Boehner, Eric Kantor, Kevin McCarthy...
Well, while Grandpa Fuzz is pouring himself a double and telephoning Koch headquarters for their latest list of lies, I'll apologize for that typo above. That should read 70% of Utah Mormons were not American Citizens circa 1857...
And incidentally, I'll stand for fact checking on everything I present (and I'll correct it if I'm in error). The guys on the right never make that declaration because, at least according to them, they never make mistakes.
Well, artzau, just examine the Cab Driver's rants here on ancient Morman history.
Student deferments were no "chickening out". And I'm well aware of the military history of Vietnam, I was in Regular Army military service in Southern Europe with a Top Secret/Crypto/Cosmic Clearance feeding information to the the Commanding General of SETAF in the height of the Vietnam US ground war efforts of the 60s, and followed with 3 years of inactive reserve status from which I was om thin Doritos Chip away from being activated for the Santa Dominican thing under President Johnson, and was on the tumultous campusus of two New England University's in the late 60s and early 70s following the war issues closely.
The all voluteer military service won the Iraq War under the Bush Administration, and Obama had the honor of carryingout the withdrawal plan that was written and agreed upon by that Administraion, our allies, and the domocratic elected parlimentary government in Iraq, the first of its kind on the Arab penisula and Southwest Asia, and from which the spirit of freedom flowed that set forth the Arab Spring which is now becoming the Arab Summer of flagging US interest in spreading freedom from oppression under this current President!
Here is your logical delimma...if you are anti war leftist first, then why the hell are you lining up to kick anyone around for their not going off to serve in a war that the majority of people in the country were no longer supporting in the 1970s?
Keith, you're delusional, seriously.
A few months before the first Gulf Wat, an old friend of mine, USAF retired (full bird colonel), was in a heated "discussion" with another ex-military... I'll let you guess which one was the officer (and a Democrat).
"Iraq won't last six weeks!"
The other guy disagreed, but my friend's insight was born out what, a dozen years later? Well, at least according to that photo-op the Shrub posted with him landing on that aircraft carrier and announcing "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended."
If the war was over as quickly as that idiot 43 said, why did it take seven more years to disengage? Shoot, we re-built all of Europe under the Marshall Plan in that same length of time...
Right... (image of Grandpa shaking his Etch-a-Sketch furiously)
Flash back to the Vietnam era, and despite that Top Secret clearance, I'm doubtful you had access to the information that old man of mine I mentioned above had. It would've been available on a "need to know" basis, and I'm guessing you were out of the service by the time this stuff became common knowledge (via the Pentagon Papers. If it hadn't been declassified, my dad wouldn't have said anything to me).
Pop's attitude toward the war changed 180º in the late 60's when he discovered the brass at the Pentagon were prolonging the war even though the consensus among all the intelligence and strategists was there were no further military objectives that could be achieved given the "limited nature" of the course our country was pursuing. The South Vietnames Army was as fully prepared as possible.
They were continuing the conflict, however, in order to continue to test out new weapons and strategies simply because we'd had our butts "handed to us" so badly in Korea... American kids continued to die for no other reason...
And a history note on Vietnam, Fuzzy. We lost...
You can review the Pentagon Papers if you doubt me. It got kind of personal for my old man because even though he didn't go Korea, he had a lot of friends who did, and one of his commanding officers was killed.
And note how it's "ancient Mormon history" when the subject of what Romney was doing in the 60's comes up, but it's somehow relevant when Fuzzie brings up his non-combatant duties.
(loud screams of his Superman complex once again encountering some very real kryptonite)
SLC
Resisting the urge to make another joke that would've been disrespectful of the Vietnam vets who served (still waiting for an answer on Michelle Olbama, however)
Come to think of it though, it's tough for me to envision anything more disrespectful to an American in uniform than what the Swiftboat liars--and Karl Rove--did to John Kerry in 2004.
Last item for Fuzzie on the "anti-war" leftist charge: Unlike you, gasbag, I don't think in black-and-white terms on that subject and fortunately, neither does President Obama. I hold all human life has having equal value, not just those with white hineys who speak the same language I do.
Casino manager wants to see you about the chits you signed for those chips you just shipped my way, and no, I'm not taking your IOU...
Now for your remedial homework, why don't you Google up the story of two-time medal of honor winner, Lt. General Smedley Butler. There's some fodder for some "anti-war" beliefs in his story, and unlike you, I don't engage in the all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking you regularly insult our intelligence with. Since you're claiming a bit of expertise in psychology and such, the definition of intelligence is "the ability to grapple with complexity." You're particularly handicapped in that area.
The ability to ignore a few irregular trees and see the forest is something you obviously don't possess, Cab Driver.
As to the Commanding Gmeral of the European Task Force he was daily and weekly supplied with the same intelligence briefings given to the Joint Commanders of the Military Services, including reports of CIA activites in Southeast Asia, Central America and Easten Europe and the North African nations and Arab Penisula during the hot war in Vietnam and "quiet wars" in Central America and the Cold War in the mid 60s. So I believe I was fairly well informed, especially as with the outflow of artillery, military armor and vehicles, munitions from Europe through the ports of Italy to redirection to the VietNam War effort, and the resulting beefing up off our conventional missle base capabilities in Italy to compansate (of course, conventional missles as Kennedy had secretly agreed to remove the nuclear warheads out of Italy and Turkey as the price for getting Kruschev to remove his missles from Cuba), Southeast European Task Force was a "warm" war supporting zone for the Vietnam and Cold War opperations.
And if the Marshall Plan completed our involvement in Europe in World War II what exactly was I and all those other US Military Personnel doing their in the 60s, and today 70 years later for that matter? Now we have Obama hinting at removing the missle shield in Europe to the Rusian President (not an inyernal Russian political power holder) when (if?) he wins his reelection, even as the newly elected (or really reelected) old KGB operative Premier of Russia moves to remilitarize that old base of the Soviet Empire. And of course, Obama also recently scuttled the plans to deploy a new updated densive missle shield to help protect our East European friendly nations freed from the Russian yoke under Ronald Reagan's strong defense budget approach, some of those like Poland faithful allies in the Iraq and Afghanistan war efforts. Maybe the Pentagon Paper's Michael Isakof would like to comment on that latter little piece of disturbing US military stance?
And I don't Google looking for substantiating arguments. I already have the information in my head from my regular awareness of the news and the trends of the world's politics in my own adult years and all of mankinds written histories.
Well, according to my old friend, my 9th grade geography teacher who was also in the military, you guys were in Europe to listen in on Soviet bloc intelligence and provide a credible deterrent; Germany was already exporting VW's, Audis, and Mercedes, and the French were giving us Citroens, Renaults, and the snobbish attitude their wines were somehow better than California varieties because they were more expensive... And I acquired my taste for Havarti and Jarlsberg back then, so Scandinavians were still in the picture as well (and my whisky came from Scotland, of course, but I had to give that one up despite those turds you keep getting all over yourself when you try to toss them).
You mean you were doing something else?
Facts in your head, eh? They appear to be delusional voices to the rest of us...
And don't show your next-to-last paragraph to any English teacher worth their salt. They'd agree with me on my dunce-cap diagnosis....
Leftist hypocrisy ? Mr. O'Donnell is only telling what romney has said himself, first he supported the war, but didn't feel strong enough to enlist or be drafted. Then he said how he longed to have been there. Romney needs to talk to the veterans I have, not one said they longed to be back there, and oh by the way, you can't speak to my brother because he didn't come back . You can't stand it that your idol is a liar in the first degree.
War is a terrible thing, but those who can't wait to get into a war are the ones who always have "other priorities" or manage to join the champagne group who learn to pilot planes never used and then goes to a base where no one ever sees him .
This is not leftist hypocrisy this is calling out someone who is not an honorable, honest person. You may not agree with Democrats but surely you have to have a honest bone in your body that says romney is not the man to lead America.
Not only did he not serve what about his 5 sons.why i bring up his sons this guy wants to send other peoples kids to IRAN AND SYRIA.
Romney said in his last run for President "his boys were serving by helping him become President." But that only lasted the summer. There are many other ways to protect our America, President Obama has done many of them, and hopefully will end our time in Afghanistan tomorrow, they don't want us there, we don't want to be there.
Look around at which countries are prospering, those not in war.
Compared to the socialist leftist political mob clown from Sol Lewinski's Chicago, he surely is the right leader, texaslady. A financial strong economy with a stawart military force is still required for our nations security in the world. That's threatened by Obama and his ilk in Congress that are all about growing government with borrowed dollars for political patronage purposes and the political gain of interest group gimmies while taking the knifes to the defense budget, including strategic defenses in an age of a resurgent Russia, the rogue states of Iran and North Korea, and the troubling military flexing of Communist China, for all their past seeming embracing of capitalist style global trade priorities.
And I and my family have done our military sevice, my son has just finished 21 years of active duty service that had him twice in Iraq and once in Afghanistan, while then serving once each as a private contractor helpiing to protect our troops with his skills in electrinic assisted defensive warfare tactics. So I don't need anyone's lectures on proper military service credentials.
Sorry, but who was it that drove the economy over the cliff, ah yes the government of Bush and cronies, They're Republicans aren't they. And what was the economy like after that democrat named Bill Clinton? And who was it that destroyed the image of the USA, ah yes Bush and Cronies, and who has the job, and is doing a pretty good job of repairing that Bush era destruction, President Obama with a good dose of help from that Clinton, Hillary. Go figure your logic.
Bill Clinton destroyed the presidency with one cigar and a stained blue dress.
President Bush had to deal with 9/11 his whole presidency.
Tell your grandson that.
Keith, for one who has lost a brother and a husband to wars that later were called mistakes I think I have a right to speak. When Generals are saying cut the budget we need to listen. More technology will take less American lives. Haliburton's no bid when a sitting V.P. had shares in that company smells. War is of no use except to those who prosper from it.
Maynard - Bill Clinton left a surplus, two wars, runaway deregulations ruined America.
So Keith for someone that has served so honorably for his country it is fine with you that Romney supported a war, but declined to serve and had 4 deferments in 5 years. It is ok with you that he stated he longed to serve but somehow a missionary called him. It is ok with you that his sons unlike yours, were serving their country helping him to be elected.
Really, since the early 70s we have relied on an all voluenteer military service, although the draft did not officially end until 1977, several years after the ground figthing in Viet Nam had been so scaled down. And it existed into the late 70s as it was thought the needs were there for a large standing Army due to the Cold War with the Soviets and Communist China. You realize that the Navy, and the Marine Corp, and the Air Force and the Coast Guard were all volunteer services even during the VietNam War, and that the Army has been also since 1978, don't you? So get off bashing people who did not serve in the military, those who are tempermentally suited and ethically comfortable with military service do have the opportunity to do so; if others provide service through other avenues such as the conscient I left my undergraduate college education early to enlist in the early 60s and did not request an education deferrment was my decision; I don't hold it against anyone or disrespect anyone who chose a different course, and that includes President Obama who served as a low paid Community Organizer (instead of serving in the US military as his law degree from Harvard and a 90 day Officers Training School would have qualified him to be an legal officer in US Army, for example).
Hmmm...for some reason in the above post he phrase in the second to last paragraph "..conscientous objectors that chose servide in America Corps or the Peace Corp or even religious missionary service to their church" was obmitted.
Keith; you and Mittens share have one thing in common; a textbook case of cognitive dissonance!
Is that anything like the disjunction of logical thought and ethics of being anti-War while castigating those that don't serve in the military?
You purposely miss the point, many people sought and got a deferment, but they didn't lie about it. They stated I disagreed with Vietnam. If Romney would stand up honorably and stand behind his beliefs, totally different. That you agree with this man after your service is surprising, you stood by your belief, you didn't run and then lie.
You are a better man than the one you are supporting.
Why do Mitt Romney feel we don't need more teachers, policemen, and fire fighters? A teacher builds lives. A policemen protects lives. A fight fighter saves lives. And Mitt Romney, ruins lives of ordinary people. The truth is we don't need some lying politician like Mitt Romney.
Because Romney and his friends can afford private school, the best private schooling. He can afford his own security and probably fire fighters.
No one is saying Romney has worked for his income, however when you start with a priviledge education and the contacts of other wealthy people you have to admit Romney got a headstart that most do not get.
I would prefer a leader that has worked their way up, so they will have a memory of working for each paycheck.
Think why is it a benefit to cut education, what is the benefit when people have to have two incomes to survive ? Uninformed and exhausted people do not have time to read, listen to make good choices in leaders.
Texas lady: you realize that the extra dollars our federal government and states throw at the municipal and towns K-12 education systems don't go into hiring more teachers (or even providing for an incentive for merit pays in salary increases or bonuses for exceptional teachers); instead they go to hire another dozen or so assistant principles and a half dozen "diversity coordinators" in a large municipal school system, or help to populate enrichment study curriculums such as bilingual education from K to 12 grades for students that needed to be immersed in English Education, or Black History or Hispanic History curriculums...even as our kids keep scoring dismally in Math and Sciences and English comprehension and writing skills. Obama and the Democrats believe this all helps the economy, but taking resources from taxpayers and capatalists and corporations in higher taxes to transfer to make work positions that do no one any good hardly can be a substitute for the kinds of productive growth that the money can be put to left in their original owners' corporate books and wallets and pocketbooks.
I wish some of the education dollars in the 50's had been spent to teach Grandpa what a run-on sentence was.
And Grandpa, nobody is questioning the quality of work you or your son did while you were in the service...
We're questioning the gonzos who were in charge of that work and who told you to do what.
And to Godwinize this one a bit...
From my childhood, obedience was something I could not get out of my system. When I entered the armed forces at the age of twenty-seven, I found being obedient not a bit more difficult that it had been during my life to that point. It was unthinkable that I would not follow orders.
Now that I look back, I realize that a life predicated on being obedient and taking orders is a very comfortable life indeed. Living in such a way reduces to a minimum one's own need to think.
Adolf Eichmann
A. Darton that is true but sorry , it seems like predudice and raceism is a very deeply rooted part of America and no mater how much the new generation has evolved and accepted people as they are there are those old racist people that just do not believe that if you do not have what they have or are of a different nationally or culture then you are just a piece of dirt benief their feet
The story was Romney's police uniform fetish left out some other tibits of information - such as how several people working for Romney on the 2008 election was charged with impersonating a police officer - Jay Garrity, and two others using badges (Mark Glanville and William Ritter). It makes one wonder how all of these men who impersonate the police end up working together, or if the behavior came from the top down.
I trust everyone will read the new piece in today's Washington post about the insights legendary journalists Woodward and Bernstein gleaned in the forty years since Watergate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/woodward-and-bernstein-40-years-after-watergate-nixon-was-far-worse-than-we-thought/2012/06/08/gJQAlsi0NV_story.html?hpid=z4
Woodward and Bernstein: 40 Years After Watergate, Nixon Was Far Worse Than We Thought
In the course of his five-and-a-half-year presidency, beginning in 1969, Nixon launched and managed five successive and overlapping wars — against the anti-Vietnam War movement, the news media, the Democrats, the justice system and, finally, against history itself.
Nixon’s first war was against the anti-Vietnam War movement. The president considered it subversive and thought it constrained his ability to prosecute the war in Southeast Asia on his terms.
'Nuff said. I brought up the Pentagon Papers and Daniel Ellsberg above; Nixon was a man for whom the truth mattersx little; he was a crazed, amoral anti-Semite, and there's a lesson about honesty as well.
Those of us who remember Nixon patting his chest and stating he had the plan to get us out of Vietnam in his pocket. Nixon would say anything and do anything to get where he believed he had earned. When we finally left, we left some of our POWs there as well, Nixon reneged on his promise to pay Vietnam what they were demanding and they kept our guys. It takes alot of research but you will find valid research on the deal Kissinger and NIxon cut and then turn their backs on, we all should weep at what we did to those who depended on us.
The poster who despises using drones, well I despise sending our young to die for profit for a few. We have no reason to be in Japan, Germany . Does anyone else know that these countries are lending money to the struggling ones.
We need a updated Military with technology that uses less boots on the ground, equiptment that works and doesn't kill pilots because of oxygen sensors that are defective.
It is called working smart, not just throwing mud until it sticks. Or keeping a Senator's pork going.
Sonnet for those with a brain that are tired of all this political stuff:
Spying a fragile bird’s nest beneath a tree,
I cupped this ethereal gem between my hands,
The threads linked together so lovingly.
Peering closer to see each slender strand,
I detected a wisp of flaxen curl,
Bits of yarn from mittens long forgotten,
Silk ribbon, through play that became unfurled,
Clinked between, a pilfered puff of cotton.
In earnest devotion each piece composed,
Intricately laced to shelter her young,
Bits from her journeys, remain long enclosed,
Enduring, encircled, life’s chain is strung.
My life reflects the print of those I’ve known,
Their threads and bits woven into my own.Each person’s life reflects the prints (love, sorrow, pain, joy) of those we have known. Our lives will always reflect the prints of those we have known, their threads and bits woven into our own.
Lawrence... if... you...don't... make... an... effort... to... stop... hesitating... between... every... word... you... speak... as... though... you... think... it... adds... gravitas... and... drama... I'm... going... to... quit... watching... your... show...
Thank you,
Frank Smith
Judging by O'Donnel's ire expressed against anyone who opposes "gay marriage", I'd say you have to forgive his speech patterning as he is obviously a Drama QUEEN, with the accent on the Queen, of course!
Republicans backing a Chicken @!$%# for Commander in Chief is all I will say.