I absolutely agree with you. Florida SHOULD be concerned about tourism. Would I want to choose my vacation where there's "open season" on humanity? How can I enjoy my vacation in a state where the hors d'oeurvres are non-white children? Bravo for stepping up to the plate. . . . Also from Philadelphia!!

You Philly folks should be more comncerned with the muggings and carjackings and getting caught in drug gang related driveby shootings than worried about John Q. Citizen carrying leagally on the streets or cafes or movie houses in Florida.

And if you're headed for the beaches, remember its unlikely you're going to find anyone packing concealed heat in a speedo or bikini.

Sensationalize this as you will, the huge majority of violent crime in this State comes from the black on black victimizing of the innoncent by the criminals.

And that is what you should be writing the Governor or Lt. Governor about!

Get real or get lost!

Or Grandpa Fuzz will shoot you....

Keith Longey just proved the "Philly" folks point and actually thinks he was being clever. Yup. Florida --> the dumbest state in the union! I guess Keith Longey where's blinders given he thinks "gangs" and "drugs" are in Philly but not in Florida!! LMAO!! Not only is Florida ridden with drug gangs, but their "John Q. Citizens" think they're living in the wild west or in Jim Crow's world, and go around shooting children! Forida --> the arm pit of the US.

Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, pressed State Attorney's investigator Dale
Gilbreath on details from the probable cause affidavit. Gilbreath,
interestingly, said he did not expect to testify today, which indicates some
lack of preparation among prosecutors. What did they expect?

"'Zimmerman confronted Martin.' Those words, where'd you get them from,"
O'Mara asked.

"According to one of the witnesses that we talked with, there were arguing
words going on before this incident occured," Gilbreath said. He said
"confronted," the word O'Mara took issue with, was one of probably 30 he could
have used.

Interesting enough, but here's the money passage, which you will hear again
at trial:

During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has
no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman
didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has
claimed.

From CNN's transcript of the George Zimmerman bond hearing this morning:

ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY O'MARA: "Zimmerman confronted Martin," those words (in the affidavit of probable cause). Where did you get that from?

DALE GILBREATH, INVESTIGATOR, STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE: That was from the fact that the two of them obviously ended up together in that dog walk area. According to one of the witnesses that we talked with, there were arguing words going on before this incident occurred. But it was between two people.

O'MARA: Which means they met. I'm just curious with the word confronted and what evidence you have to support an affidavit you want in this judge to rely on that these facts with true and you use the word confronted. And I want to know your evidence to support the word confronted if you have any.

GILBREATH: Well, it's not that I have one.

V

omara got the lead investigator to admit the affidavit for probable cause is flawed. this is huge as the affidavit is the basis for charging gz. i have a neighbor who is a lawyer who told me this is stunning and the judge could throw out the affidavit causing gz to go free. this case might not come to trial. brilliant move by omara. looks like sharpton has boo berry pie all over his face.

i dont know if gz is guilty or not but let me ask a question. ive seen posts about gzs brother and parents lying. i dont know if theyre lying or not but back to my question. if anyone in this blog had a son or brother facing decades in prison would you lie to help his defense? be honest now. i certainly would.

JUSTICE FOR DANIEL ADKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ann Foster

.........."I absolutely agree with you. Florida SHOULD be concerned about tourism. Would I want to choose my vacation where there's "open season" on humanity? How can I enjoy my vacation in a state where the hors d'oeurvres are non-white children? Bravo for stepping up to the plate. . . . Also from Philadelphia!! .........."

Hey Ann Foster; ever hear of a young man named DANIEL ADKINS?

you mean like bill clinton

Uh Ruskie,

I was working a bit this weekend, but I reviewed a post of yours over on Chris Matthews' blog. I decided to hold an "impromtu" AA meeting, and I'm inviting you to attend solo to check out what I said in reply.

You can bounce it off your sponsor afterwards, if need be, but be careful of those resentments. You know what they say about them.

BTW, be careful of "Granda Fuzz," aka "Keith L." He's saying some particularly noxious things about people who used to have drinking problems. I'm glad I didn't meet him way back when I got sober. I might've died...

cabbie of course resentment is the #1 cause of relapses. as for keith he is like most who think addictive behavior is a weakness. he is normal as he attacks an opponents weakness. we all do this. ive watched your and keiths posts with amusment and anger. you 2 are more alike than you know. i agree mostly with keiths politics but i keep an open mind.

Like I said, you need some work on your perceptions. Yeah, I know they constitute your operating reality, but there's a whole 'nother larger reality you're wholly unaware of...

In terms of "who's like whom?" you're more like I was 25 years ago, and I'll share a few "mileposts" of recovery you can go ahead and ignore (same words my sponsor used on me, and he's still a Republican).

Resentments aren't the cause of relapse. Drinking is the cause of relapse. Poor coping skills in dealing with anger activate the "relapse dynamic" I outlined. Psychodynamic issues come into play as well in unconscious patterns adopted that create the "theme" of that dynamic.

Two phrases from an old mentor of mine (a PhD who was nominated to be a non-alcoholic trustee of AA World Services): 1) You keep trying to "one-up me." That's a sure way to confirm your own self-centered reality... An old, old friend who spoke at the World Conference in San Diego noted "ours is a disease where we believe our own bull@!$%#." I've never found a truer statement on the subject, period. And I'll be visiting that old mentor this week for some support in dealing with my teen-age daughter and some health issues that are slowing me down. BTW, it's healthy to be able to ask for help and feedback.

The other thing he said to me was, "Pay attention to what I'm saying!" I managed that one, and ultimately the rewards were utterly incredible, beyond anything I learned in nearly ten years of solid sobriety and "junior grade guru apprenticeship."

I invite you to do the same. Right now you selectively ignore anything that is at odds with your pre-conceived notions, and as long as you hang on to that rigid thinking, you're not going to grow pschologically, spiritually, or otherwise...

Okay, short interval for a chuckle as I watch the Ed Show with Allen West, Lou Dobbs, and Bill O'Reilly engaging in some re-invented 21st Century McCarthyism and calling Robert Reich a Communist...

Sponsor: The sky is purple.

Pigeon: The sky is blue dammit!

Sponsor: Best you be quiet right now or you're gonna look foolish. Here are some things to do...

So the newbie does them, and lo and behold, one day the sky changes color...

Study up on McCarthyism for a bit, grasshopper... Even William F. Buckley, Jr. looked like a blithering idiot on that subject.

You forgot to mention "pride goeth before a fall" cab driver. Or maybe you haven't mastered that little gem of advice. I see not as you fill your posts with throws out of your self importance, "and former mentor of mine" and "an old, old friend of mine (apparently well respected people both). Your familiarity with people like that, or "e-mailing exchange with Chris Mathews", or braggings of postings on an environmental hack sheet, or volunteering in the drunk tank...all may be laudable in and by themselves, but bragging on them here just exposes your inssecurity in your disease, and your fragile state of recovery.

All of your many musings on addiction and the jingoistic vocabulary of half learned jargon you picked up along your sorry path means nothing in the discussion of the postings on this blog, and are pitiful chest pumping simply menat to give yourself and other naive individuals a false sense of your expertise and "impotence".

Better get a sponsor, and check it out! False Pride Goeth Before a Relapse, ya' know?

You who never heard Martin's voice before distinguished those calls for help for his, and not Zimmermans?

And you also heard him "begging Zimmerman for his life?

I suggestyou approach any piece of evidence in this case with a preconception, and bend the evidence to fit that.

I hope and pray you never get called for jury duty, or if called, are found to be a fool that wants to judge on prejudice and dismised poste haste.

Tell us about Zimmerman's previous arrest record, cherry picker...

The ones that were suppressed include felony resistance to an arrest...

Worst case of over-compensating for a testosterone deficiency I've ever seen.

But we had heard Zimmermans voice and knew the screeming wasn't his. Experts (3) proved this to be the case.

For further proof, maybe the jury could request a partial re-enactment of the incident and have Zimmerman go out there some night in the rain and scream exactly the way he claims he was screaming the night of the incident, with the same recorders taping it. Then do another voice analysis to compare that recording with the original and see if they match.

larry: An adult eyewitness stated to police that the man on the bottom in the fight wearing red was being beaten by the man on top on his head, and the man on top was wearing light clothing. The eyewitness identified the man on the bottom wearing red being beaten was calling out repeatedly for help. Got it?

Some technicians hired by a newpaper were your experts that only had a 48% match of the voice heard screaming for help as being Zimmermans. comparing it to his known speaking voice from his cell phone conversation. They have no recorded voice of Martin to compare it too, and this is NOT evidence, and won't be heard in any trial. GOT IT?

You know what? You are the epitomy of a racist non-apologist just like the murdering retard you're defending. How about you CHECK yourself before you do yourself harm.

What is racist about citing facts of the case? Do I upset your sensibilities, or do the facts upset you so because they don't jibe with your incredibly naive misconceptions, Manuella?

The "murdering 'retard'" you have bought the racebaiting medias caricature of was an employed property and casuality insurance underwriter who was attending the local community college studying criminal justice and voluntered on weekends with his wife to tutor and mentor youth of all ethnicities and races. Zimmerman also volunteered as a neighborhood watch member for his homeowner's association. Seems like the resume of a pretty solid citizen to me, Manuella. So yes, I have nothing to apologize for here!

musicpromo1

.........."If you knew that another person was going to kill you AND you had no weapon other than your fists... Would not anyone try to defend themselves any way they could??? When I heard the screaming in the 911 tape I was sure and still am that it is coming from Trayvon. He undoubtedly knew a that moment he knew he was going to die. it's so heartbreaking to hear him beg for his life. Zimmerman should not have been bailed. I don't get that at all. .........."

Your posting presupposes that George ran up on Martin for no reason and shot him.

We know that isn't true because an eyewitness saw Martin punch George in the face, knock him to the ground, and slam his head against the pavement.

All the kid had to do was to say, "hey man, my Dad lives here, so leave me alone," or words to that affect.

But, instead he chose to use his fists on George, and George defended himself.

By the way, do you know who DANIEL ADKINS is?

J. Merle: No eyewitness saw how the fight began, as was admitted by the Special Prosecutors Inspector in the Bail Hearing under oath. The adult eye witness did come across the fight in progress alerted by Zimmerman's calling for help as Martin beat him in the head with a fist as he had him pinned to the ground. The eyewitness called out for the agressor to stop his assault, and when he didn't, with Zimmerman still calling out for help, he went to his house and called police. And he gave his statement right after the incident as the initial investigation, as did the other adult eyewitness who ovserved the fight in progress and the yelling for help from the window of his residence.

I didn't see Chris Matthews, but thanks to Zimmerman's father and brother, there have been different versions out there about what happened that night based on what "George told them." And of course Trayvon Martin will never be able to tell things from his perspective beyond what he told the girlfriend on the phone.

But I don't think you have anything to worry about Keith. I doubt he'll get convicted of anything. He may have to sweat it out for awhile but he'll ultimately be set free with probably nothing more than a reminder that it's the police department's job to determine if an individual merely walking along his neighborhood street poses any threat.

But I would come back at you about Zimmerman being unfairly prejudged with this: In his phone call to police, as he described Trayvon Martin, Zimmerman made the comment "they always get away." Sounds to me that George Zimmerman did a little unfair pre-judgment himself. Why else do you make a comment like that unless you've decided the individual has already committed some crime from which he's going to escape justice?

The reason hearsay evidence is not allowed as evidency or testimony is because hearsay evidence is by ite very nature filtered through the preconceptions and emotions of the one who is relateing it.

Zimmerman's father and brother didn't give testimony in this case of what Zimmerman told them, they only talked to the MEDIA, and that ain't yestimony, its gossip! See the difference?

Zimmerman saw a gut lingering in the backyards at night on a dark rainy night hiding his facial features with a hoodd sweatshirt and when that guy saw that he was being observed he ran. Hence, "They always get away!" Got it now?

And you know that he was "hiding his face" how? It was raining. And I also see you have no lose for the slander, "saw a gut". He saw a "black person".

And Zimmie father and brother gave "testamony" by phone which nobody knows it was them, they wern't together getting their stories straight.........

I hit the "t" instead of the "y", larry. Why don't you give up the racebaiting posture?

The hooded sweatshirt was born as a fashion statement from the gansta' rappers and hip hop artists that copied the "uniform" of the drug dealer criminal like "in the hood", ya know? Where it was adopte to hide the wearer's facial features to deter recognition in the hot drug wars ongoing, which Hollywood and the music industry have immortalized for our impressionable youth to copy.

Nice insult to people's intelligence with your historical revisionism...

It couldn't be because hoodies were practical and offered a way to keep one's head warm. Shoot, I bought a camo one back in 1970 for bowhunting and duck hunting purposes...

And seriously, I see more druggies in a month than you've seen in you've seen in the last ten years... Of course I'm talking about the real thing, not just some teen agers who happened to be hanging out...

keith lol i saw that. matthews has been outted for his biased reporting

A big part of the motivation of Trayvon Martins parents and their passle of lawyers are any cvil suit they could bring post an arrest and trial (even if Zimmerman is aquitted), and that would include the civil suit against the Gated Comunity at Twin Lakes Homeowners Association (which is insured, of course, in case of any such attempt). They know that underneath of of this turmoil set loose by the racebaiting leftist media are books and movies rights (at least made for TV movie), and also tje ability to gather up by successful civil suits any book deal Zimmerman also makes, or his attorney.

That is the sorry state of American Jurisprudence today! We owe it all to "Court TV" and its excesses of the past that drew such high ratings for sensational trials.

Perjury is what you say under oath. What evidence of perjury is there in his simple answer that he thought Martin was "some years youngger than he" in his statement of apology,which is not evidence elicited by direct or cross examination before a jury in a trial. GOT IT?

Rev Al...give me a break. This is going to be his third, and most notable failure in lynching white people after the Tahwanya Branhaw fiasco and the Duke Lacross players cases.

looks like sharpton has boo berry juice all over his face

Right. Zimmerman says under oath to Martin's parents he didn't know how young their son was... That was under oath.

And yet the 911 tapes clearly have him identifying him as teenager...

You two are back to quibbling again.

"He looks to be in his late teens" to be exact. I remind you that men and women in their late teens serve in the military of our country, and that of our allies.

In a knock down, draged out fight for his live Zimmermann probably thought he was a lot older than his first guess observing Martin trespasing in the dark back yards. Henc, the "I thought he was a little bit younger than me".

Simple cab driver, once you look at things objectively, and stop filtering thru your bulls*** initial impressions formed by the distortions of a racebaiting media.

Just to clear up your misconception on this matter...a defendant giving an apology to the family from the stand is not giving testimony under oath. Testimony is what is produced by direct and cross examination only.

A statement provided to police is not testimony. Only the answers to question in direct or cross examination based on the statement is testimony under oath.

Got it, Cab Driver. Or do I have to spell it out a third time!

I guess you forgot the bit about Zimmerman telling the Police dispatcher that the suspicious guy out in the backyards in the dark standing in the rain looking into the houses "had his hand in his waistband"?

Now, what is your incredibly stupid point again?

Gee, it's February, and even in Florida it can get chilly enough to stick one's hands where they can keep warm...

Or if you're a randy young man with your "middle school female child girlfriend" 400 miles away in the Miami area, and you had been cruizing through the darkened backyards on a rainy night stopping to look into the houses, maybe you were playing with your "junk", to use an ethnic term. Even Martin's football coach stated to the press that he, Martin, was obsessed with sex.

They came out now because this case continue ss to be to be tried in the media and on blogs by idiots like you, Bill. What exactly is your incredibly stupid point about the origin of the pictures? They are what they are!

Hey dolt....er Bill...Zimmerman meant to shoot-no mistake! Put yourself in Georgey's place. You got a wanna be gangsta in your hood wearing a hood and and you're the wanna be cop. Now, finally you got some action! You dutifully call the cops, they tell you to back off, but they don't see what you see, this dangerous gangsta in your hood carrying a carton of milk...probably a whitey bomb...after all it is white milk.

So you secretly follow him, not hard because you are the only two out in the hood. I don't know how Tray could tell you were following him, but his superior gangsta instincts tell him you are indeed following him not the guy who passed by 1 hour ago.

The sly gangsta sets a trap for you that you didn't see coming...whoa, he's taller than your towering 5' 9"...(what are they feeding gangstas these days?) He's also stronger, more athletic, and he's kicking your ass! (now this didn't happen in your cop's wanna be head when you successfully apprehended the culprit and were in front of the cameras receiving your key to the city!) Somehow between times of the back of your head hitting the pavement, you remember you got a gun....

Richard:

I've been in a lot of one on one confrontations in my life, most professional.

Twice as a high school student I was confronted by bullys, and they both bit the dust from well placed blows from my fists (I never got hit except in a shoulder).

Working as a Psychitric Nursing Assistant with the Dept of Veterans Affairs in evening shift supportive employment while pursuing my BA and Grad School education, I had many occasions to either intervene in and stop fights, or to immobilize an assaultive adult without striking a blow. Again, I was never hit, although kicked a few times.

I have had to display a handgun (had a legal carry permit) once before when pursued by individuals in a tinted windowed van down a turnoff to a boat launch on the Straits of San Juan Fuca on the Olympic Penisula (Washington State) side of the water in the predawn early morning hours with no other vehicles or people around (except my then girlfriend sitting in the front seat of my truck). The van (with California plates) had been harrassing us for a mile or so erratically running up and tail ating us, and I was mentally prepared to use the handgun to defend my life, my girlfriend, and my property if confronted by assaultive individuals.

Didn't need a "Stand your ground law" in the latter issue. It would have been pure self defense. Luckily, the fools in the van thought better of it, and put their vehicle in reverse, and kicking dirt, backed up that dirt turnoff road band exited back onto the highway in short order.

You have apparently decided by your sarcastic tone (we'd all enjoy...even if its not true) that it is I, not you, that is the racist here. And just Who the F*** are you to take that tone with me, or speak for the "we" of this blog? Does that answer your ignorant, insulting question sufficiently?

From Issac Asimov's Foundation Series...

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent...

I worked nearly four years in an inpatient rehab. As the schoolteacher, I was the backup to the tech, and we never had anything close to an incident. Too, because of my undergrad crisis line training and afternoon hours I was the guy who was often around to "prevent AMA's" (Leaving against Medical Advice). I never came close to anything violent, a fortunate thing, because the director, a tough Chicago street nurse, would've gelded me if anything had gone down...

Control freaks do enjoy being bullies; they're just in denial about the reality that's obvious to the rest of us.

And if the National Rifle Association had any integrity and compassion, they would endow a scholarship for minority students in Trayvon's Martin's name. And I, too, grew up around guns and still own a few. Instead of a heritage of sportsmanship and "fair chase" in hunting (with sustainable species), they've focussed on scaring us with MMD's (Muggers of Mass Destruction) and insisted everyone should be carrying a gun like they allegedly did in the Wild West (which was often another myth).

Firearms have a fascinating history and are a tribute to technology, etc., but the whackjobs are the greatest enemies of common sense I've ever seen.

cabbie someday if someone is bashing your head on cement you can quote asimov and he will stop and consider your quote? or maybe you can quote ghandi?

Irrelevant. It didn't happen. If it had, he likely would've been knocked unconscious and wouldn't have been able to fire the fatal shot.

See how everything relates to this guys experience in rehab and his own concept of his self importance, Mika?

My work for a few years as a Psychiatric Nursing Assistant in supportive employments before I went on to a professional career wasn't in an addiction rehab unit, it was in a locked psychiatric ward for serious psychiatric disordered individuals. We stopped taking in active drunks, although that used to be a policy of the Veterans Administration. We simply called the police and had them escorted off our grounds to either be taken to a community detox or jailed for public drunkenness.

And just how am I standing up for "hate", Dale? By citing facts"? By exposing the ignorance of the facts of the racebaiters here? Seems to me (and others) that it is the ignorant racebaiters that are all about the hating. Are you one of them, Dale?

keith keep up the good fight. so many dems , so little time

If it appeared to me that the person beating on me had me at a definite disadvantage, and appeared to be bent on doing maximum physical injury or worse to me the answer is most assuredly yes, I would think self preservation in killing the assaultive individual would be right, reasonable, and legal, and I would not hesitate to do so. I would also say the same if someone was going to steal my property or possibly be assaultive in that manner or another (such as rape) of someone else (I refer you to my explanation above of one occasion when I used a firearm to disuade individuals who obviously meant me and someone with me harm).

Thank you for dropping your previous tones of sarcism.

Grandpa is all about everybody "dropping their sarcasm" except him.

He finds it confusing when people use his same tactics back at him. Look at how he mistook Lawrence O'Donnell for Chris Matthews...

I know, all liberal pundits look alike to him, same way all teenage Afro-Americans do...

I do fight fire with fire, I admit!

Manuella:

The answer Zimmerman gave to the Police dispatcher's question prior to the confrontation and fight and shooting was "he looks to be in his late teens" At the Bond hearing apology in answer to Martins's mother's questions asked in a TV appearance Zimmerman stated he thought His assailant Martin was "A little bit younger" or "a few years younger" than the 28 yr old Zimmerman. That might be someone in their early 20s, so the discrepancy would have been no more than several years, no? Perhaps his later statement, the one on the stand where Zimmerman was recounting his guess of the age of his assailant Martin at the time of the beating and subsequent shooting was based on his close up experience with the angry assaultive Martin and his imposing size (6'3", over 160 lbs), no?

Anyhow, don't be too hard on the prosecutor as he was restricted by the judge in the amount of direct examination he could do, as this was simply a bond hearing that focused on the one paragraph affadavit.

The real problems for the prosecution are that while they asserted in their affadavit that Zimmerman "profiled" Martin, they have no evidence other than his statement that he was reporting someone who he observed to be acting suspiciously (Zimmerman's own words to the Police dispatcher), and the investigator stated UNDER OATH that the prosecution had no evidence to prove who started the fight (or disprove Zimmermans assertion to police immediately after the fight that it was Martin that struck him down and was on top of him beating his head before he resorted to shooting his assailant).

I remind you that Zimmerman in the immediate hours after giving his statement to police was given and passed a "stress test" given on questions asked him at the police station by investigators on his statement of the events leading to the shooting.

I agree with you that it isn't looking very good for the prosecution of a 2nd degree murder charge here. The prosecution clearly overcharged, probably hoping they could scare Zimmerman and his attorney into a plea bargain on a lesser charge like unpremeditated manslaughter or negligant homicide with the use of deadly force (a firearm). and be done with this case without having to go to trial. Why else would the prosecutor rush to tell the press outside the courtroom where he just got his ears pinned back by the dfense and the judge "wait until you see, we have more evidence, we have more evidence". Seems to me the only evidence they have is the recollections of portions of a conversation she was having with her "boyfriend" by the middle school lovesmitted girl from the Miami atea 400 miles away about Zimmerman following Martin through the backyards and perhaps asking Martin "What are you doing here" after Martin demanded Zimmerman answer "Why are you following me?" Pretty poor countering witnes to the adult eyewitness that observed the fight in progress and identified Zimmerman as the man wearing red on the bottom being beaten ny the man wearing light colored clothing, and the man in red being beaten being the one calling out repeatedly for HELP!

Of course, there is that little nasty fact that Angela Corey, Special Prosecutor, is up for reelection in the Fall, and was soooo eager to latch onto a nice juicy sensational case. What better than one already tried in the Court of Public Opinion based on distortions of the racebaiting media?

You're close to on the mark, Richard, but what it is just some obvious developmental arrest stuff; note the essentially immature and adolescent aspects of if (despite his age). But then, that's what personality disorders consist of, and the "art" of corrective psychotherapy consists of correcting the underlying defenses and cognitive processes that give rise to them. Unfortunately, the prognosis is pretty poor because they seek out like-minded sorts--i.e. FAUX Noise--that offers them an "intellectually incestuous environment" so they don't have to engage in--and listen to--meaningful feedback. That's the denial I spoke of above. Control freaks compulsively attempt to manipulate and dominate those around them because they're unable to deal with the emotional hangovers associated with ambiguity. Dichotomous--black-and-white--thinking is their primary "survival tool." And as is obvious, delusional projections often accompany the cognitive dissonance.

In truth, it's merely cathected--i.e. "frozen"--fear that's become such a part of his personality that he's forced into a psychodrama script where he perennially acts out the terror...

He might win a pissing match, but he ain't gonna win a swearing contest with a cabdriver even if he does most of the swearing. Deep down he's terrified of any of us knowing what coward he really is.

You might've learned this stuff, Captain Fuzz, if you'd worked with adolescents in the first place. But keep beating your chest and shouting how you're not really afraid; I mean, afterall, you've got those guns to cling to...

You can't fool some of us, but you've proven you're particularly accomplished at fooling yourself.

Richard:

There are no conventional fist fights, except in a boxing ring with a referree and the rules of the Marquis of Queensbury for civility.

People are killed and seriously injured in street fights all the time.

If I was on top of someone, I would be attempting to immobilize them. Martin was observed by an adult eyewitness to be over Zimmerman holding him down with one hand and hauling back with one arm and striking him repeatedly with his fist in the head, so he was at least at arms length. The autopsy results showed Martin was shot in the chest at very close range, and their were powder burns on his clothing.

I never made a statement that I was physically imposing Richard. I stated I was proficient in past confrontations, though.

I am 5'10", 205 lbs, and well developed in my shoulders, chest from an evening job I held as a press operator lifting very heavy molds in the late 60s while at the Univ. of Connecticut.

I was a wrestler in High School. I received hand to hand combat training from the U.S. Army, was also trained in proper restraining techniques by the Dept of Veterans Affairs in the early 70s. I have strong legs from my many years of backpacking and mountain hiking. A lot of fights are won by leg strength, and overall conditioning; thats why boxers and sports wrestlers (not the commercialized entertainment variety) run for training purposes.

And Zimmerman was observing Martin in the dark backyards of the townhouses on the rainy night. When the police dispatcher told him "We don't need you to do that" re: Zimmerman's previously followimg Martin throughout the phone call, and when Zimmerman answered "Okay", his statement was he began to return to his vehicle while continuing to wrap up his call with the dispatcher, making arrangements for where a police cruizer could meet immerman (at the developments mailboxes).

Martin did not confront Zimmerman and assault him in the backyards. Apparently that happened in the space between two townhouse buildings with a sidewalk that led to the street, where Zimmerman had parked his vehicle.

I suggest you do make that last your definite last pitiful attempt to disparage me in any way you can. I assure you, you are definitely not up to prevailing in that methodology, fool!

Breaking news for the reality-challenged...

The Sanford Police Chief has resigned.

//www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/sanford-police-chief-bill-lee-to-step-down-permanently.php

cabbie it was reported he was resigning 3 days ago. thanks for the newsflash. btw pmsnbc just stated obama will go to colombia. lol up to the minute reporting by you and pmsnbc

Breaking news for you, cab driver. The city council of Sanford, Fl has voted not to refuse the offer to resign by their police chief. They realized that his intention was to try to further the peace in their torn community, but they took a firm stand against the outsiders like Al Sharpton and Ben Jealous, and Jesse Jackson and the New Black Panthers who have tried to stampede their community.

And now the long suffering residents of that community that stand by their police force are going to have a support Zimmerman counter rally in Samford. That was a long time coming, but apparently they were the only ones observing the calls for calm and to let the justice system run its course.

And that has what to do with what I reported?

Man, this whole thing is looking to me like a re-run of Mississippi Burning...

You're in for a rough ride Grandpa. Besides flattering me with your clumsy imitations of my "style" (your rigid thinking definitely isn't conducive to originality), that pain you were under when you regressed into hysterical posting was trying to tell you something....

That was your conscience trying to resurface after you buried it years ago...

Deeply damaged by living too long on the dark side this one is... Painful the treatment of his super hero notions will be...

/Yoda voice off

clicking sound of the Kryptonite setting on the light saber being adjusted upwards...

I missspoke. Was first typinf the City Council voted "to refuse the offer to resign", and thought I changed it to read "refused to accept the offer to resign", and that differed considerably with your joyous pronouncement of the "breaking news" of the resignation of the police chief made here and on several other posts.

"He who laughs last laughs best", and I and others had a good laugh over your impatience to post that one hour short lived aspect of this sorry episode, as if that gave reompense to the family of Martin. Do you see how desperate you are to salvage something out of your prejudged racebaited outlook?

What a loser!

Richard:

You might apply the term to the assine cab driver though, Richard, by my leave. He enjoys throwing out the jingoistic jargon learned along the way fron his still uncompleted journey thru the rehab of his sorry, failed, quitter, addicted life.

One last thought here, you can pick your friends, but you do have to bear with any poor insufferable fool that comes along and obsessively fixes on you as their enemy, it appears. Then if you haven't learned anything in your arrested development from the borderland state of adolescece as you had numbed your journey into adulthood with alcohol and drugs as our admitted addicted personality disordered cab driver had, you go through live projecting all your own sick failings and insecurities onto others, as the cabdriver just did in his above posting.

"Remember, it is always the FIRST PERSON that is speaking!", Henry David Thoreau.

You definitely put the ho' in ad hominem, Grandpa...

You want to try to address those charges I put up in "cinicalese" which you claim to be proficient in? Didn't think so... You got as far as learning what projection was, but core beliefs, cognitive styles, and ordinary cause-and-effect are beyond your ken.

I won't bother to take you down with your references to Thoreau; he was a pacifist, you realize...

No, now that I think about it; I don't you think do...

Thanks, though. I'm making lots of friends as a result of your rants... As the November election gets closer, they'll be listening.

BTW, folks, note how Grandpa Fuzz has donned his martyr cap and has to endure outrageous insults while he brings illumination to the ignorant. So much for his "secular" outlook. A grown-up would've assumed responsibility for his choices, but he blames them on others.

cabbie you mean like obama blaming bush, china. atms, tsunami, the weather. all of europe, congress, earthquakes, floods, cheney, you mean like that? didnt i hear obama say "the buck stops with me"? i have nothing against you personally. i just pointed out the foolishness of you post. let not your heart be troubled.

You might try some codependency groups there youngster. Maybe Al-Anon or over on soberrecovery.com... You're still in need of some serious perceptual adjustments.

How do I know? Well, I was Republican myself until around 2000...

How does complaining of the meaningless insults used instead of learned argument get branded as my "choices" that I refuse to take responsibility for? Do you even listen to yourself?

You will note Mika that the drunk cabbie comes right back at you with another reference to his closed world of the merrygoround world of drink yourself stupid, wake up stupider, than rebab, then stay sober until you drink yourslef stupid again, etc. etc. So who are the culprits there for him? Oh yes, the enablers, the folks that need to go to Al Anon to get well themselves. The rescurers, or which he brags he is one (when he isn't one that needs a rescurer). Everything in his world revolves around his alcoholism and addiction disorder...and that is how he peigeon holes everyone else he encounters. It's a simple world afterall. For the ultimate simpleminded man!

cab thanks for the advice but my program seems to be working. as i went through the liberal education system i was a dem until i was on my own and i had to face reality.

Truesouth: The fight took place by the sidewalk from the street between two townhouse buildings, not in the backyard. That fight was observed by two adults eye witnesses, one who identified Zimmerman and Martin by their dress, and one who identified them by their relative size. One left the fight in progress and went to his home to call 911, and one was on the phone to 911, and both reported hearing the shot fired. Both gave statements that night to police and state attorney's investigators. Apparently a minor child whose mother brought him forward to police some weeks later saw some of the fight in progress.

If you are truely interested in learning the facts of the case as they develped and continue to develop, search Trayvon Martin Shooting at Wikipedia for an eye opener unimpassioned, detailed full development.

Cab Driver: You can add Delusions of Grandeur to your other sundry disorders. You have no friends here, and you post nothing of value. You simply lurk to stalk others, and if you havn't noticed, no one comments on your comments except other threads where fellow Mormon haters have chimed in on your bigoted views on that religious sect.

You came on to another thread bragging some time back on how other posters should watch how you "destroy" my arguments and "expose" my lack of intellect, which you have obsessively continued to fail at steadfastly, while simply resorting to insult and semi-learned jingoistic jargon.

Just another of your many life failures, and I have no doubt before long you will quit, as you have always quit everything in life, except your drugs of choice, of course and rotgut liquor soured disposition.

keith i look forward to your and cabbies jousts. but i dont agree with your using cabbies drinking as a weapon to use against him. youre smarter than that and dont need to bring it up. this is just my opinion. do as you see fit.

Actually Ruskie, it's my non-drinking that he has a problem with... Now go back a week or two and review his history of how initially he claimed he ran "confrontation" groups for vets and their drinking problem and now he's morphed into a psyche nurse (I'll lay off the "sissy" shot even though it's tempting because he hit me with that one) who dealt with real crazies...

He's consistently inconsistent... And I'll tell you what: If there are any legitimate clinicians (LSCW or PhD's) who want to review my material versus his, I'll gladly stand for review. He's terrified of being unmasked, but knows if he takes off, he'll confirm he's over his head on this one... He knows name-calling and how to shout someone down, but authentic understandings elude him.

Mika. The cab driver sees everything in the bleak world of addiction disorders, and those jingoistic jargon filled insults he throws at me adnuseum are nothing more than what therapists had called him in their desire to snap him out of his alcohol and drug filled stupors. He is a self admitted drug and alcohol addicted life dropout who lives out a fantasy that others he encounters have the same bag of problems as himself. We used to call them 90 day wonders, the ones who were in rehab with just the beginnings of abstaining from their drugs of choice, and deciding to pursue a career in the field as a therapist themselves, as if that was going to make their life anything other than being a dry drunk with all the really sh***y attitudes still in place.I call 'em like I see 'em!

Let me clear up the sotted cab driver's misconceptions of my background.

While undrtaking my second BA degree at UMass Amherst I worked for New England's primary psychiatric medical center supportively evenings as a Psychiatric Nursing Assistant. Upon completion of my graduate course of study in an MAT English and Secondary Education and Vocational Education curriculum I worked for that institution's Alchohol and Drug Treament Program for duel disorderd veterans (many Vietnam combat veterans suffering from PTSD besides addiction disorders). I was promoted after two years to the position of Vocational Rehabilitation Specialist. I left for a temporay assignment with Ft Lewis's Social Work Service after 5 years and worked initially in a Drug and Alcohol Contorl Program and also served as the Employment Program Counselor for the whole of the Ft. Lewis federal civil service employees. After two years I was promoted to the a position working in the Madigan Army Medical Center's Family Advocacy Program, and worked four more years doing Spouse Abuse and Child Abuse Invesigation and Treatment, and Psychological Assessments and Case Management of troubled adolescents of Military and Retired military personnel, including arranging rehabilitation treatments for those youth in contracted residential facilities if required. That six year period encompassed the Panama invasion, the Haiti intervention, the First Gulf War and the Clinton involvements in Irag also. I also volunteered in a Vererans Outreach Center providing assesments and case management and group treament modalities.

I returned to my work in New England with the Veteran's Administration in So Ea Massachusetts and Rhode Island as promoted to the highest grade of Vocational Rehabilitation Specialist at the VAMC level, amd develped two new unique programs of assistance to veterans in the Veterans Industries and Veteran's Construction Teams. I worked four years in that position contracting for labor and labor and materials with private and public sector empolyers. The I retired, and undertook three years of employment with a non profit serving as Supervisor of Vocational Education and Rehabilitation with physically and psychiatric disordered individuals, including Adolescents in the State of Massachusetts Rehabiloitation programs before total retirement.

Is that clear enough for your befuddled brain to get itself around, Cab Driver?