In our first ever web exclusive Rewrite, MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell weighed in on how The Orlando Sentinel has been rewriting itself in the Trayvon Martin investigation.
On Monday, the paper broke a big news story on Trayvon’s suspension from high school because he was found with a baggie that may have once contained some marijuana.
That article was written by the newspaper's police reporter, Rene Stutzman, and she appeared as a guest on Monday's show. Lawrence O’Donnell questioned some attributions in the piece, or lack thereof. Upon further investigation from the Last Word, the newspaper eventually issued changes.
"Let's hope The Orlando Sentinel does not have to rewrite itself again, and let's hope that The Orlando Sentinel learns how to answer simple press questions about routine editorial procedures at the newspaper," Lawrence said in the Rewrite.
Though an editor still refused to answer the specifics of exactly when and why they added the attributions to the article.
Lawrence ended with a warning message. He said, "If editors at The Orlando Sentinel go into "no comment" mode when asked about procedures that should be public, then journalism in Florida is in serious trouble when, more than ever, we need the best journalism they can deliver."
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Thanks so much Lawrence for posting this. I have been in a vigorous discussion about this and suspected that the story had been updated.
I'm a Huffington Post Blogger and also a bi-racial African American. I and many folks I know, are deeply concerned over the seemingly orchestrated attempt by Conservatives to use stories originating with the Sentinel (particularly by Rene Stutzman), the City of Sanford "Trayvon Martin" website, combined with the creation of conspiracy theories to maliciously portray Trayvon and his family (and Black folks generally, especially males) in a false and negative light, as well as intentionally inflict emotional and mental distress on us.
Additionally, this campaign seems geared towards not only exonerating Zimmerman and Sanford Police conduct, but also to justify the Koch-backed American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and NRA's pushed "stand your ground" laws nationwide (including "2nd Amendment remedies")
I've personally seen a slew of comments by Huffpost's Conservative users engage in these behaviors (I've been saving some of them). Although the overwhelming components of the disinformation campaign have been to the disfavor of and/or about Trayvon, Rene Stutzman, for example, reported in the Jewish World Review that such "misconceptions" have been biased towards police (and the one about the "warning shot" has not appeared anywhere that I've seen and seems more like a kind of "plausible deniability" attempt to make it appear that she's being "fair to both sides").
Her March 29th story is entitled, "Trayvon Martin case's myths, half truths" http:// www.jewishworldreview.com/ 0312/ trayvon_martin_half_truths— myths.php3
Although in her interview with you, Stuztman said the "empty marijuana bag" was NOT relevant, she still broke the story regarding it, which did NOTHING to quell "myths" concerning the reasons for Trayvon's suspension (e.g., that he sexually assaulted a girl, etc.) Stulzman was totally SILENT regarding THOSE "myths," which continue unabated DESPITE her publishing story in Sentinel about the "empty plastic bag" as cause for the suspension.
Anyway, it's time THESE MYTHS be exposed, debunked, and the Conservative campaign behind them vigorously challenged. Not only because of their negative effects on the memory of Trayvon, his family's well being and Black folks in general, but because they are exacerbating the racial divide in our country and debilitating the promise of our Democracy.
do you justify the myth by sharpton that its a white on black shooting? do you justify spike lee giving out what he thought was zimmermans address? do you justify the black panthers putting a bounty out on zimmerman? spike lees giving out the address could only be seen as a call to violence. spike and the black panthers are obama supporters. can you justify obama not speaking out in their call to violence?
Thanks for exposing the mechanisms that White-supremacists use when they've been caught - YOU CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Keep burning down the strawman factories you build to create as much smoke and fire you can to HIDE what YOU and your ilk are doing. You can keep selling that crack meat to your base. They'll smoke and eat it up gladly. I ain't falling YOUR RACIST BREITBART trickery!
And what makes you think the President knows anything about the garbage you state? I'll bet he has a few more issues to deal with. And with his small statement on the Martin issue, yor side called it hatered. If he does know of the issues you post, why should he wiegh in on it. Just more lies and spin from your side would come out of it. Ahd how do you know the Feds aren't investigating?
Lawerence, How many times would you have to rewrite your bias spewage? The very first night did you not insinuate Zimmerman was white? Why did you lighten up Trayvons photo? Why did you only show Trayvon when he was 12? Why have you not shown Trayvon with his gold teeth? Have you denounced the Black Panthers yet? Have you said that Trayvon was found with a burglery tool at school with jewerly in a sack? Is it possible this was from that neighborhood? You are nothing but a VERY SICK RACE BAITER! Justice be damned. Why are you not intersested in 49 shootings in Chicago St pattys weekend? AH minority on minority crime does not count. You piece of SH$T!
Zimmerman is White.
Travyon's photo was not lightened up. In any case, why do you think that darker skin equals more suspicious?
You are stupid.
These are facts. Your comment, on the other hand, contains none. I will go so far as to say that you are, in fact, a racist.
Comrade Kevin, Trayvons photo WAS lightened up, for the reason you will have to ask people like Lawerence O"Donnell. But you hit it on the head. If Zimmerman is white so is are President, but then agian only when he needs it. And assuming Zimmerman was white and not mixed was why the story blew up in the first place. Yellow journalism at it's finest, and my facts are all correct and that does NOT make me a racist.
you bring up racism. are you aware larry told michael steele to obey his master. how can you defend larry making a racist remark? larry apoligized to keep his job. very weird larry bringing up racism in zimmerman case after he has a history of racism.
Racism in this story is a two edged knife, that will cut and spill the life blood of the body politic. Wield it at your peril, whether you are black, brown,white, yellow, or red. Where is Jesse's Rainbow coalition in this sorry affair now? Watch the parade and rally in Sanford today;the NAACP organizers had their token white and gave her a minute of fame, from the Democrat Party's leading labor group financial supporters to the street workers recruits of the SEIU.
After seeing the media cover this story, 24/7, all I can say is, I COULDN'T CARE LESS THIS KID IS DEAD. It wouldn't get a moment's coverage is the shooter was black. The nmedia is just stirring up controversy on this issue to keep us from seeing the biggest threat to most citizens - corporate greed. O'Donnell looks pretty burned out on this story himself.
Chip, you are wrong,
This stays in the spotlight every day that Zimmerman is not arrested and charged. Mistakes have been made and a full investigation is in order. The people are demanding it and they should get it. If the shooter were black, he'd be locked up.
You nor they need any help to prove your shameless and mindless bigotry, history does it for you:
Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims ”...Blacks thus committed 7.5 TIMES more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: BLACKS ARE COMMITTING MORE THAN 50 TIMES THE NUMBER OF VIOLENT RACIAL CRIMES OF WHITES.”
FBI’s crime figures for 2007
“Blacks committed 433,934 violent crimes against whites, EIGHT TIMES as many as the 55,685 that whites committed against blacks."
Stick that in your HuffNGlu Post and smoke it.
I can't understand what defense Zimmerman has. The right to self-defense applied to both Trayvon and Zimmerman. If you take the law to its logical conclusion it makes absolutely no sense.
If I was walking alone at night and someone was following me, I would be scared. If I saw that person getting close to me and saw they had a gun, I would probably crap my pants. At that point I feel I am justified in punching, kicking, screaming and doing whatever came to my mind to defeat this gun-toting stranger. And it doesn't even matter what Zimmerman said. He had no police badge. If he said, "I'm from Neighborhood Watch", so what? Maybe that is one of the things Jeffrey Dahmer said to the boys he snatched before he abducted them. This case has revealed so much corruption and racism, in Sanford and in our legislative process. The entrenched interests will stop at nothing to keep things the way they are.
If you were skulking through the bakyards of private homes in a gated neighborhood at night and spotted a 5'9" man on a cell phone observing your actions, you might be angry that he was "dropping the dime" on you to police, and then after not being able to shake him in anger assaulting that individual because you considered yourself a 6'3" 160 lb hard ass, but you just might have gotten yourself in the kind of trouble that you won't get out of.
He wasn't "skulking through back yards". He walking on the sidewalk. Please pay attention. Quit making things up.
Zimmerman reported that he first saw Martin going through the backyards. Where did you get the info that he was walking on the sidewalks? People have posted that Martin was on a public sreet, but the streets in the gated community weren't public ways. Who observed Martin other than Zimmerman?
larrys column basically stated the reporter cant justify the story. you and larry have failed to speak out against spike and black panthers. justify that. calling me a white supremacist is consistent with anyone disagreeing with you or larry can only be racist. i have read many of your posts and its obvious you are very intelligent. why is this hispanic on black shooting getting so much airtime while 93% of blacks shot are shot by blacks. why hasnt larry and msnbc spent this much airtime on this fact. if you want to see a mature balanced report on this shooting try watching oreilly. its obvious you want to lynch zimmerman. put aside your bias and wait for all the facts to come out
How many times you going to bring that crap up? Do you have access to what the FBI are doing? Do you know if maybe they are investigating? NO
And his name is Lawrance not larry. Your side sure loves to show how little respect they have for anybody.
Respect is not granted until earned. Little Larry sure hasn't earned any this month, leading the race baiting, and spinning fanciful tales of conspiracies to rouse the rabble and dsparately try to improve his ratings and his networkL like he is!
by the way, are you forgetting larry told michael steele to obey his master? msnbc forced larry to apoligize but i guess you have no problem with larry being a racist.
Hey Larry, How come you haven't mentioned the fact that NBC and announced that they are investigating an internal investigation in to their own doctoring of the 911 call that paints Zimmerman as a racist. I've heard the uncut version and find it interesting that in the version that you play, it sounds like Zimmerman volunteers the information that Trayvon was black. However, when the unedited version is played the 911 dispatch asked Zimmerman if Trayvon was Hispanic, white or black.
You grill this woman for not giving the Whole truth, I think you are right in that sense. But if there is anyone that doesn't give " THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH" it is YOU.
Lately you have been calling many of the people that you disagree with LIERS, yet you use half truths to prove your point. Leaving out some of the facts is also a lie, just as you point out in this piece.
This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
My, My, My, Little Larry, you've really topped your most shining moment (when you argued passionately for 10 bullets to a gun maximum as you might recall). That got you on The Daily News too, as I'm sure you remember.
Buy as to getting down in the weeds, that explanation of your exploits with the great unmasking of the Orlando Sentenial's reporter was a remarkable "chalkboard" incident of exploration into the grand conspiracies you keep finding in this Martin thing which rival the certifiably craziness of one Glen Beck.
When are you going to learn that after you pump yourslelf and your stories up, and after you are done pleasuring yourself with all that smug smiling self stroking, all you have for your troubles is a sticky mess on your hands.
You think the Orlamdo Police had a need to "plant" stories of Martin's suspension from high school (his third, we have learned), when that suspension took place some 400 miles away in the Miami area? You don't think the newspsper had a legitimate source for the information?
Are you aware that Martin's other suspensions were for defacing with grafetti public property, and also for suspicion of jewlrey theft while also in possession of a burglery tool (a large screw driver)? Are you aware that the "young lady" on the cell ohone call with the trespasser Martin who was reportedly skulking through the dark backyards of the townhouses in the gated community is, in fact, a middle school female child who Martin had no business having a relationship with? Are you aware that she lived over 400 miles away from the incident?
How about the one adult eyewitness that identified Zimmerman by the color of his clothing as being the man screaming for help as the 6'3" 160 lb highschool athelete hovered over him pounding on his head with his fist? Are you aware that the police told the other adult eye witness (who also witnessed two men fighting on the ground and heard one calling out for help) that if it helped the man who eas calling for help was still alive after the shooting, referring to Zimmerman.
You are aware, I'm sure, but you would rather pretend that the female child who has said that both the phone went dead after hearing words exchanged between Martin and another man, and that she heard sounds of a struggle and heard screaming that she thought was Martin (it can't be both), was telling mixed stories? Two adult eyewitnesses, one love sick middleschool child reportably on a cell phone 400 miles away, and you choose to believe the stories (plural) of the child, because that best fits your agenda!
Hang it up, O'Donnell. You're over the edge. Why you have a need to spin this sorry tale of intrigue and conspiracy of Police, State Office of the Attorney General, and the Orlando Sentinal's reporters and editors in league with family members and friends of George Zimmerman, a neighorhood watch officer and employed adult who was also a student in the local community college studying Criminal Justice while attempting to exonerate from his thugish behavior of the trespassing and assaultive deceased Martin is incredibly bizarre, and entitles you to the award of MSNBC's FOOL COMMENTATOR for the month of March!
Why don't you disrespectful clowns go back to Fox? I heard they need some good disrespectful people to help them out.
When you can't argue the facts coherently, what have you got left but insults larry.
Lawrence O'Donnell is logical.
'Larry is logical' as a tank with a kickstand.
That's my local paper here in Longwood, Fl.. I haven't subscribed in years. Now you know why we call it " The Orlando Slantinel" . It has been on it's last legs for a while, and I don't expect it to be around much longer.
Now you know why we call it " The Orlando Slantinel".
NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE..NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE..
Little Larry beware, this just in! Keith Olberman fired again, this time by Al Gore!
Keep doing the over the top thing on your shows, with the insulting interviews and rants and your fate is sealed too, no doubt!
Thanks Keith. Intellectually, you ain't fit to tie Little Larry's shoes.
I know that I am not going to be visiting any of the states that have this ridiculous law. Anyone with a gun, and I mean anyone--drug addict, alcoholic, racist, someone with serious mental problems--can have a gun & use it & claim self-defense. (Now I'm not hating on drug addicts, alcoholics or people with mental disorders; I'm just saying that they might not always act rationally.) The self-defense rationale seems too broad, and seems to be accepted too easily by law enforcement. My family is white & I'm concerned. I can't imagine the fear every minority family must be feeling that live in these vigilante states. So I say we boycott these states. Don't spend your vacation dollars in any of these states. Don't do business with anyone in these states. Vote with your dollars (or lack thereof). I can't help but be disappointed that Florida is raking in the tourist dollars with so many people going there to protest. I understand wanting to support the Martin family, but I hate to think that it benefits the state of Florida. I read an article that said the first person shot under this law was shot by his neighbor because he had put out 8 bags of trash on trash day instead of the requisite 6. The man that was shot survived, and the man that did the shooting walked. Now, how is that self-defense? The man that survived moved as far away as he could (Hawaii) from what he now calls "The Gunshine State".
I was reading a book called "The New Global Student" (yes, we're thinking of leaving the country) and there was an excerpt about how parents in other countries are reluctant to send their children to the US anymore because of all the gun violence. We should be ashamed. Large money interests are destroying the USA. CLEARLY having more gun rights, or should I say relaxing our gun laws, is not making us safer, just as deregulating banks did not make us richer.
twurlygurt:
The states and municipalities that have the most liberal carry laws, both open carry and concealed, as well as liberal ownership of handgun laws for home protection, have the lowest violent and property crime rates! If you want to live or visit only the localities and states where the criminals only have the guns, why be my guest!
Keith Longey, you are WRONG.
SOME "liberal" handgun ownership states have low crime rates. They HAD low crime rates BEFORE. That ownership has NOTHING to do with low crime rates.
MOST "liberal" handgun ownership states have HIGH crime rates. Take Texas, for instance, which not only has a high number of homicides on the streets but also has the highest number of STATE homicides committed via the death penalty.
For example, Texas has very liberal gun laws, and yet in 2010 it had a violent crime rate of 450.3 per 100,000 population. New York state, on the other hand, has some of the strictest handgun laws in the country, but that same year it had a violent crime rate of 391.1 per 100,000 -- 15 percent LOWER than Texas.
The HOMICIDE rate in Texas was 5.0 per 100,000 compared to New York State's 4.5.
Better do a brush up on Uniform Crime REport statistics, because you will find that there is no direct correlation between crime rates and gun laws.
rosalee:
At the height of the recession's unemployment rates two years after Bartak Obama wes elected and the Democrat Party controlled both hourse of Congress, that Administration and the Federal Reserve poured tax payers and borrowed and printed money into New Yorks financial district at rates totally eclipsing anything this country had seen since the Depression years and World War II.
Texas, under a Republican Governor and Republican control of both houses of their state legislature got scant attention from federal largess, and yet they struggled on, and eventualy righted their economic ship.
We all know how the game is played, and we all know why poverty and high unemployment leads to increasing rates of violent and property crimes. Add to that the spill over in Texas of the drug wars in Mexico, and the massive influx of criminals and poverty striken residents from South of the Texas border, and you have the answer to your statistical difference, imo.
Watching Hoplophobes drool is truly pathetic.
Media Silence Is Deafening About Important
Gun News
Great Job this week, Mr. O'Donnell. I'm recording your show these days, just in case I'm too busy to watch it at it's usual time. The Zimmerman camp seems to be sophisticated and media savvy from print to CNN to FOX...YOU, your guests, and your passion for NOT letting the story be manipulated is to your credit and I, for one, am happy to see it.
the left led by msnbc refuses to report the fact zimmerman tutorted black children on weekends. i wonder if sharpton, jackson, eugene robinson, johnathon capehart and tameron hall from msnbc do this?everyone of these says this a racist shooting. msnbc is obviously using this shooting to take the heat off of obamas lawyer making a fool of himself at ussc over obamacare. calm down and let the investigaton run its course before you lynch zimmerman.
The left from jump street distorted the news on this tragedy, by editing the tape of Zimmerman's conversation with the dispatcher to try to show racial profiling, inorder to make the story fit their race baiting agenda! Seeing this, I and others aren't letting it go unanswered...we are on your bull@!$%#, and we are calling you on it everyday of your sorry life, O'Donnell!
Bo:
NBC didn't manipulate the news when they selectively edited Zimmerman's cell phone conversation with the police dispatcher, to make it appear he was racial profiling? Instead of issuing an apology to Zimmerman and the public for that gem of dishonest manipulation of the news, they are "conducting an internal investigation" into that matter. Who discovered that blatantly race baiting manuver..why Fox News's Sean Hannity! And CNN closed todays excellent weekly media transgressions report with a castigating review of NB?C and MSNBC's coverage as race baiting run amuk!
Get real, or get lost!
WTF does that mean to you, or are you so stupid to help them lift the rug so they can sweep under it their dirty deed?
Check this one out Lawerence. Rick Santorum has the nerve to comment on the President having compassion the family and calling it race baiting. This show how he really feel about our Preseident. Check it out for yourself
Rick Santorum Calls President Obama a N***ger, but catches himself almost too late!
www.youtube.com
Taped March 27, 2012 by Mike Collins with graphics by Nate Johnson of JATV Media Services JATV.org
Here's the link. Check it out.
Lawrence, you've been excellent in your coverage of the Trayvon Martin murder case.
Hopefully the Trayvon Martin family has a voice recording of their dead son, or one of the friends of Trayvon has his voice on their cellphone voice mail. Why?
Because one of the 9-1-1 calls has someone calling for help before the fatal shot, and forensics experts should be able to determine who was crying for help by doing a voice analysis.
If it is Trayvon Martin's voice crying for help, then Zimmerman's story is toast, and Zimmerman probably killed the unarmed Martin in cold blood. And this would indicate that Zimmerman's account is probably reversed, with him telling Trayvon Martin that this was going to be the night he, Trayvon Martin, died, BAM. The eyewitness and 9-1-1 call evidence already suggests that whoever was shot was the one calling for help, but a voice analysis and match to Trayvon Martin on that 9-1-1 call would clinch it, not manslaughter, Murder One.
Or maybe the match is to George Zimmerman's voice. This would still not exonerate Zimmerman for defying police orders and chasing down this unarmed kid with a gun. That's not "self-defense," that's just plain stupid, and in my view, still deserving of at least a manslaughter charge.
In the meantime, where is George Zimmerman? We've seen his daddy, the registered Republican retired judge, on television defending his son. We've seen George's brother on television doing the same. But where's George? In watching Rev. Al Sharpton's excellent program earlier, we learned that under Florida law, someone has to be arrested and charged within 175 days or they can't be arrested and charged, apparently meaning that in approximately 140 days, George Zimmerman will have immunity over whatever happened the night Trayvon Martin was killed (although I wonder if there is a murder charge exception to this Florida law? Was the guest on Sharpton's show only referring to a manslaughter charge having a time limit?).
So, where is George Zimmerman? If there was any reason for someone to take flight, like for over 175 days, maybe even fleeing the country, maybe to Mexico, I can't think of any better reason for someone to go into hiding (or fleeing completely), especially as more and more evidence keeps popping up that calls into question George Zimmerman's account of what happened that night. So, where is George Zimmerman? Probably only members of the Zimmerman family know. Not the police. Not Florida state authorities. Not the DOJ. (My bet is he's probably already fled the country, as far away from Volusia County and Sanford FL as possible).
The Oracle:
An adult eye witness saw the man on the bottom of the two men fighting in the grass and said he was wearing red. Zimmerman was wearing a red and black trimmed jacket. Martin was wearing a white shirt and a gray sweatshirt.The adult eye witness said the man on top was hitting the man on the bottom in the head with his fist, and the man on the bottom was yelling for help. The eye witness called out for the man hitting the man on the bottom to stop, and when he didn't, he went in his house to call police.
The lovesmitten middle school aged female child living back in the Miami area 500 miles away from this incident has said she heard words spoken, and then she heard what sounded like a stuggle. Then she said the cell phone went dead. She also reported that she heard someone yelling for help.
We have Zimmerman's statement that he was yelling for help, we have an adult eyewitness that was calling police saying it was the man in red on the bottom (wearing red) being beaten by the other man who wouldn't stop was the one clling forcalling for help..
CNN, as rightously spoofed by The Daily Show, ran back one other telephone call 10 times on their Anderson Cooper show with a voice forensic expert trying to make something intelligble out of a 1.6 sec unintelligble sound that could have been nothing more than static, but try as they might they could only guess it might have been Zimmerman making an identification of the trespasser he was observing as being described to the dispatcher as a "goon" or a "coon". Of course the latter fanciful term would be ripe for the race baiters to sieze on.
ABC New had also edited out the dispatcher asking Zimmerman "What does he look like" before Zimmerman answered, "he's black, he's wearing a gray sweatshirt" in giving identifying information so the police patrol that was being alerted to Zimmerman' report of a "suspicious guy walking about, looking about" in the backyards of the gated community he served as a watch officer in. By editing out the dispatcher asking for identifying information, it made for a better race baiting profiling segment for their "news" shows, in that they had Zimmerman's conversation sequentially as "suspicious guy walking about, looking about...he's black" was sure to raise the rabble and add viewer controbersary and interest in their coverage of this growing "story"! !
So you blelieve your lying ears all you want, the evidence the States Office of the Attorney General is going on is what Zimmerman stated, what the full unedited taped comnversations were, and what the adult eye witnesses at the scene of the incident reported to police. END OF CASE. End too, of the sensational race baiting tactic of the leftist media and the fringe Democrat Party elements in this sorry affair.
Of course, that was NBC, MSNBC's parent network, not ABC that did the dirty deed of editing out critical portions of the Zimmerman-Police dispatcher.
By the way, did ou know that Zimmerman had been elected by his neighbors in Twin Lakes Gated Community to his officers position in their newly formed watch? That Zimmerman had taken and passed a Sanford Police Citizen's Crime Watch Training Program? That he was employed as a Property and Casualty Insurance Under? That the Sanford Polic have stated that there had been over 400+ calls for police assistance from this gated community that had experienced numerous breakins, thefts, assaults, and a shooting over the pst one year plus, and that Zimmerman was credited by Police as instrumental in a number of arrests, and one previous self apprehension of a thief? Dis you know that Zimmerman came from a multi ethnic famuly that included African-American heritage individuals, and that he and his wife tutored and mentored youth of all races voluntarily on weekends?
Not if you suck at the foul, lying teat of MSNBC and their parent "news" organization NBC, who have continued to paint Zimmerman as a trigger happy, racial profiling, paranoid self appointed watch Captain cop wannabee, oh, and yes, a man with a "violent past" ( 7 years previously for a shove of a police officer that netted him a citation and dropped charges of Interferance with an Police Officer without violence at age 21, which was an alcohol related incident), and also for cross filing petitions for restrainig order with his ex-fiance, described by MSNBC and NBC as criminal felony convictions and domestic violence arrest, obviously false, especially as Zimmerman possesed a carry firearms permit from the County which no felon or individual with a domestic violence charge could obtain.
So wise up to the bill of goods these Democrat Party operatives at NBC and MSNBC are giving you in their continuous effort to race bait this case to rally a segment of the Democrat Party fringe base, and distract with this circus from the serious issues of economic, financial, energy, defense, health care policy miscues of this Administration aided and abetted by the lean left Democrats in Congress as they try to gin up ratings of their failing net works. It's an election year, and they are running scared, so be doubly aware of their agenda.
Well, I think it is useless to discuss with right wing people. They will find excusses and justifications for everything, no matter if its torture or murder. They follow their on logic. However, what I don't understand is how Zimmermann shot Martin while Martin sit on the top banging his head? How to grab the gun from the holster and shot him from the front. There was also no real time to cry for help in zimmermanns story. You dont cry for help while your head is banged to the ground. You need time to cry for help. But there is no time to cry between, punsh on the nose from behind, get down, Martin on top banging the head, shot.
Stupidest comment of this thread goes to Peter Goody, Gody, Two-faced Shoes, hands down! Christ, do you ever bother to listen to yourselves when you recite this nonsense?
Well, this case is getting interesting, but a recent article from Florida -
Florida man faces two years in prison for killing bunnies
A Florida man will likely get two years in prison after pleading guilty to killing three bunnies by twisting them with his hands.
I think Dave Barry was right when he said we need to just let Florida break loose from the US and float away, taking as many Bushes as possible.
Old Wanderer:
And your point is what? Did the wanton killer of the bunnies do it as the first step preparing them to be eaten? No? Well, was he under attack by the bunnies and had the right to self-defense? No?
Did Zimmerman state as supported by two eye-witnesses now that he acted self defense when Martin assaulted him and continued to assault him as he Zimmerman lay prone on his bask under his attacker waiting for help that he called out for that wasn't coming? Yes! Should Zimmerman be arrested, indicted, tried, and sent to prison for his act of self defense in a justifiable shooting? NO!
So what, pray tell, is your incredibly ignorant point?
There is no eye-witnesses of the initial assault. However, a lot of things of the original zimmerman story has been proven as wrong. He didnt went out of his car to look for the street name. He cant be hit from behind, because the nose is not on the back of his head. Its nearly impossible that he shot Martin while Martin sit on top.
And who PROVED these accounts wrong...the State Special Prosecutor? NO!
YOU sitting in you cozy armchair in front of the distorted "news" campaign of MSNBC, NO!
It is what it is....get over it!
msnbc reports the bunnies were black and sharpton and jackson want hate crime filed.
I watched Chris Mathews yesterday have one of his rare moments of reaching a realistic conclusion when he had to shut up Ben Jealous of the NAACP who was ranting on about Zimerman "leaving his car with his gun in his hand intent on murdering in cold blood a black youth walking home on the sidewalk". Mathews visibly recoiled, told Jealous "You can't say that, you don't know that he had his gun in his hand, you don't know what he was thinking, or what happened, do you? Then you can't say that!"
Jealous didn't know what hit him, for he assumed he had MSNBC's approval to vent his racist agenda in his invited appearance to HARDBALL! Poor Ben.
I have made one inaccurate statement in all my postings on this issue in contention to the hysterical reporting and commenting of the MSNBC cable news shows, this one in particular. I don't watch Sharpton of the Tawany Brawhna fiasco, and the Duke Lacross player's fiasco...he is most interested in his own self agrandizement and enrichment than any other "cause celebre", and isn't worth anyones time of day.
My inacurate statement based on some newspaper artivcles I read was the Martin's father's financee Brandi Green, lived NEAR the gated community, not in it.I have learned I was wrong, and she did live in Twin Lakes Gated Community, where George Zimmerman was a resident with his wife the nominated (and approved by Sanford Police) watch commander. However, the incident of the altercation and shooting took place not near Brandi Green's townhouse, but in the backyards of other townhouses where Zimmerman had first spotted Martin walking about in the rain at night, "looking at houses", and where Zimmerman attempt to keep Martin under observation until advised by the dispatcher that "We don't need you to do that", at which Zimmerman answered "Okay", according to the tape transcripts of the telepone call to police he, Zimmerman, had made requesting assistance.
For a full, unimpassioned, undistorted, fair and balanced exposition of all the facts of this sorry episode please see the detailed Wikipedia excellent presentation, which examines every aspect of evidence, timelines, and statement of Zimmerman, eye and ear witnesses, and police and state authorities and after that make your own determination if there is yet a preponderance of evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's statement of justiiable shooting in self defense. The Sandford Police and the State's Attorney Office to this point still maintain NO! Do yoursleves a favor, and learn more before you continue with your demands for a rush to judgement.
We should make clear what we consider as facts. Here are my facts, you can add facts, if I missed some.
1. Zimmermann called the police from his car
2. Zimmermann told the police the boy is running away
3. Police told Zimmermann not to follow
4. Zimmermann followed Martin anyway
5. Martin walked on a normal sidewalk between two blocks of houses that lead directly to the home of his father
6. Fighting took place around 200m away from the parking of zimmermanns car
7. Zimmermann shot Martin from a near distance in the chest from the front
Zimmerman never used the term "boy", at any time. How would he know te "guy" as he called him was a youth as Martin was 6'3" tall and had a hoodie on which hid his facial features.
Zimmerman told police that the "suspicious guy was getting away", he later told the dispatcher "he's approaching me".."I don't know what his problem is", then after Zimmerman lost sight of Martin when he tried to get an address from the nearest house as the dispatvher requested, the dispatcher asked Zimmerman when he heard he was breathing hard and raggedly, "Are you following him?" to which Zimmerman answered "Yes". Only then did the dispatcher say "We don't need you to do that" to whicj Zimmerman answered "Okay", and the phone call was ended.
At no time was Zimmerman TOLD or ORDERED to not follow Martin, he was simply advised "We don't need you to do that". And Zimmerman's statement was that he ended his observing of martin, hung up the, terminated the call, and tiurned to go back to the car when he was abruptly confronted by Martin, who after words were exchanged (as heard by Martin's middle school aged child girlfriend) who said she heard Martin say "Why are you following me" to which Zimmerman reportedly answered with the question "What are you doing around here" Then there sounded to her like there was some struggle going on, and the phone went dead. Of course, she also said she heard Martin's voice screaming for help in another version of her story, but it obviously can't be both. The call couldn't be discontinued, and then magically some minutes later turn back on so she could hear her boyfriend's voice screaming for help, could it? Wshe perhaps dis-sembling in her duel versions of the call?
"Martin walked on a normal sidewalk that led between two blocks of houses.." you say. Were you there to see that? Was the child girlfriend 400 miles away back in the Miami Gardens area of Martin's usual home (until he was suspended from highschool for posession of drug paraphanelia with marijuana residue (just the kind of guy every parent of a middle scool aged female child want's their daughter to call boyfiend, hmmm?). Was anyone there to see that?
Rather, Zimmerman's statement was that he had turned and began returning to his parked vehicle when Martin accosted him and assaulted him, knocking him to the ground with a sucker punch to the head. That reads to me that it was Zimmerman walking on the sidewalk from the backyard where he observed Martin trespassing at night, peering from the rain darkened night into the houses suspiciously, (or pervertly perhaps?).
True, Zimmerman said he shot Martin in self defense as no one answered his calls for help. and Martin was on top of him raining blows down on his head and trying to bang his head into the concrete sidewalk. And that portion of the fight other than the shooting was observed by an adult resident who called out to Martin to stop, and stated to police that the man on the bottom wearing red (Zimmerman had on a nylon red and black trimmed jacket) was the one screaming repeatedly for help as the man on the top (described by another adult eyewitness as the biger man (Martin was 6'3" tall, Zimmerman 5'9" short of the two men).
Those are the facts, and that is why the state's Office of the Attorney General has not moved to an arrest or contemplated any charges against Zimmerman, because the preponderance of the evidence supports Zimmerman's claim of justifiable shooting in self defense to end the beating he was experiencing at the hands of artin. who miraculously continues to be portrayed by NBC News and MSNBC using pictures and words to have been an innoncent child.
Wow! Now Little Larry's castigated newssource the Orlando Sentinal prints a story that their two voice recognition experts are saying their analysis of the screams calling for help heard in a tape of a 911 call from a phone in a residence near the altercation in the backyards of the townhouses in the gated community Twin Lakes in Sanford, FL on the night of the shooting of Travon Martin could not be attributed to Martin, but they are venturing they were not George Zimmerman's (by a factor of 52% non-matching to 48% matching according to their software).
Will Larry denounce the Sentinal reporting on this issue, challenging their sources, their motives for printing that sensational bit of nonsense? Or will he be moot on the subject, refusing to give in to the temptation to use this worthless piece of non-news to further the hysterical reporting on the Travon Martin shooting. I really doubt either of those scenarios will be the path Larry takes!
Everyone who has ever studied statistical correslations knows that the 4% margin is usually considered non-significant. Too, voice recognition is unreliable, especially when an individual is under extreme stress.
The voice experts have ventured that by the shrillness of the screams for help, it would be a young person screaming. Zimmerman is 28, Martin was 17. Of course, he was well past the point of puberty where his voice would be considered to normally be in the high register. But it sure does fit the scenario of the middle school aged youth that Martin was, and still is, being falsely portrayed to be by his pictures used universally by the leftist press (led by the tape editing for their convenience NBC news, who had already shown their willingness to manipulate Zimmerman's conversations with a police dispatcher to slant the story to one of racial profiling).
So you do the math, the man who an eye witness identified as being the aggressor in the fight, the man on top beating the man in the red clothing on the bottom who was screaming for help (according to the eye-witness and Zimmermans statement), is determined by software experts (looking for a fat fee in court, perhaps as expert witness for the public outcry stampeded prosecution, or in any civil proceeding Martin's Father and Mother are already pursuing against Zimmerman), can not be determined by the experts to be the Martin screaming for help, but the headlines of this sorry story are that "Screams for Help Could Not be Zimmerman's!" By a 52% to 48% matching non statistically significant margin as burried in the text of the story.
Results by this software starting above 78% are seen as a match, dependending on the input quality. However, everything under 78% are clearly ruled as non-matching by the software.
We can also read about the eye-witness you refer to:
A 13-year old boy walking his dog saw a man on the ground shortly before the shooting and identified him as wearing red.[77][78][79] His mother later disputed the testimony and claimed that the police pressured him into choosing what color the man was wearing,and that her son couldn't see any details in the dark. She also stated that the police waited five days before requesting to even question her son and said the police told her they didn't believe the shooting was self-defense.
Wrong witness. The adult witness "John" as he was referred left the fight in progress and went to his residence to call police and report the altercation in progress. He was interviewed immediately at the scene by the first police arriving.
The thirteen year old child was brought forward by his Mother at a later time, and two young women also came forward and gave statements they witnessed the aftermath of the shooting with Zimmerman standing, and the other man lying face down in the grass.
The other adult witness who was observing the fight from his residence open window called police. his statement was that the bigger man was on top as they struggled on the ground, and after the shot the man on top was lying on the ground face down and the man on the bottom got up after a couple of minutes, and starting walking holding his hand to his head down the sidewalk between two buildings, and that man was "Hispanic". There was apparently an hysterical female resident that called 911 because she heard screaming for help, and she was on the phone when the shot went off. That was the call your so called experts "analyzed".
Voice recognition that compares a known spoken voice with a recorded speaking voice may be considered evidence if the judge in a trial allows it admissable. No judge is going to admit as admissable a 52% to 48% comparability ratio of Zimmerman's speaking voice and the screams recorded of some individual under extreme duress! Especially as the defense would have a field day with cross examination of that inherrently unreliable comparibility, and would have no problem bringing forward numerous defense expert witnesses that would effectively negate these tenuous claims.
You, sir, are desparate in your attempt to bend the facts to fit your premiss. Why don't you stop playing this juvenile game of armchair detective and prosecutor, and leave it in the capable hands of the Special Prosecutor now to get the full investigation completed?
It is so criminal how George Zimmerman:
1. In his car
2. on the road
3. Saw Trayvon Martin
4. Wearing a Hoodie and carrying skittles
5. In front of the Complex
6. Called 911
7. 911 told him, "We don’t need you to do that."
8. Zimmerman put his car in park
9. Chase after Trayvon Martin
10. And murdered Trayvon Martin BEHIND the complex
I think the guys with the hoods on in the joint want to talk to you Zimmerman!
Could you possible be one of them? That is the exact same attitude displayed by Martin as he accosted and assaulted a man who was observing him looking into the houses from the backyards. And stat tuned for the possible enentual civil charges Zimmerman might bring against the "news" organizations who have sought to damage him with malice and forethought, slandered him, and for the negligengent endangermeny of the actions of known Black Panther members and their accomplice Spike Lee over that "bounty thing and tweeting of a mistaken address" as well as from the father and mother of Zimmerman who have, as Zimmerman and his wife has had to do, left their homes at some considerable expense and inconvenience and had to cease their employments due to that bounty, which the hate crime committing Black Panthers and their ilk continue to perprtuate, attempting to raise $1 mil so they can offer a reward for the kidnapping of Zimmeman by their para-miltary parade about foolish street punks. Eric Holder may refuse to uphold the law and take proper federal action against these criminal activities of conspiring to commit an act of kidnapping, but the new Justice Department coming Jan 21st after the election and Governor Scott's Florida Office of the atorney General may be already acting in that regard.
I am a very liberal left leaning individual. That being said, I am also no longer your viewer, These endless inflamatory segments arent news or politics. They are designed to garner ratings and are very dangerous. Would you take responsibility if some crazies injure or kill someone out of a misguided desire to avenge this?
I am appalled at the media trying cases on TV. I watch MSNBC shows because I enjoy politics. Public individuals are prepared for the incredible heat all of this attention brings. People who are just ordinary citizens are not.
There is already a report of death threats to someone because his address was wrongly tweeted as that of Zimmerman. You are apparently from the last interview I watched attempting to get the name of Zimmermans employer. Do you want to bring heat on them as well in hopes of getting this man fired?
Who made you, a TV talking head, judge and jury?
Your interviews are onesided and since you obviously hold the power of the microphone, your interviewees get no real chance to air their opinion if they do not agree with you.
All of this is just ugly. not much better than what Limbaugh or Nancy Grace puts out there as legitimate news and opinion
Lean forward - and turn off the TV. After seeing the media cover this story, 24/7, all I can say is, I COULDN'T CARE LESS THIS KID IS DEAD. It wouldn't get a moment's coverage is the shooter was black. msnbc, CNN, Fox - are all equally guilty of simply pandering to hate. This kid died in vain - because the media won't just let him RIP.
I have yet to hear about an eyewitness who actually saw Trayvon Martin chasing Zimmerman. Trayvon, from the diagrams I have seen, was where he was supposed to be - on the street where his family lived.
Has it been ascertained for certain that the police collected Zimmerman's clothing? Why would they? He wasn't charged with anything. In the video he looks to be wearing the clothing from the shooting scene.
Are these the clothes Zimmerman was wearing when he left the police station after being questioned and released?
Pat:
Who saw Travon Martin before his shooting other than the eye witnesses (two adults) (maybe a 13 year old boy) when he was over a prone Zimmerman striking Zimmerman in the head as identified by one adult witness by the red clothing Zimmerman was wearing, and by the light clothing Martin was weating. And they were observed not fighting in the street, but fighting in the grass bordering a walkway leading from the backyards of townhouses in the gated community. That was also what the other adult eyewitness saw, two men fighting on the ground, with the bigger man of the two on top (Martin was 6'3" tall, Zimmerman 5'9" short) and he heard the shot and saw one man fall over to the ground face down, and saw the other man eventually get up from his prone position, and holding a hand to his head, begin walking down the sidewalk between two buildings; that man he described as "Hispanic". Zimmerman is Hispanic, Martin was of Afro-American descent.
Zimmerman wasn't stipped naked at the scene. His pistol had been taken by police at the scene for evidence, he was attended to by EMTs for his bleeding nose and gash in his scalp, and taken into custody in handcuffs to the Police station where he could be further questioned by Police Detectives on his statement. Then, after the State's Attorney advised the Chief of Police that there was insufficient evidence to seek an arrest warrent due to Zimmerman's statement and supporting eyewitness statements, and his claim of justifiable use of deadly force (a firearm) to end Martin's assault in self defense, Zimmerman was taken back to the scene of the altercation and shooting some four hours later to provide for detectives and the State's Attorney a re-enactment of the incidents for further evidence gathering. Prior to that gunshot residue swabs had been taken from his hands, as is proper protocol. He was then released to his home in the gated community, and subsequently his clothing was then taken by the police for further forensic testing.
Please see Wikepedia on Trayvon Martin shooting for a dispassionate, detailed, comprhensive development and exposition of all the evidence and events of this case still under investigation by the Special Prosecutor of the States Attorney.
It's unfortunate that racism still exists, even now in 2012. The fact of the matter is this Country has mega miles to go before it is no longer racists. You would think that this Country has come a long way, electing it's first African American President. However, there is more blatant racism now, than I've seen in the past. Anytime you can call the POTUS a Liar, a Socialist, a Racist, Point your finger in his face, a ordinary African American doesn't have a chance. Racism is alive and well in America, it just organized now.
Max, that is why we should not look the other way. I am hearing that people here in America are already sick of the Trayvon Martin case. My message to them: we must never tire of injustice. Never. Racism itself will never go away which is why we have laws.
Zimmerman had no right to act upon his prejudices like he did. He saw a black kid in his neighborhood and assumed he was up to no good. Period. A kid who was not breaking any laws whatsoever. He was simply walking home. Killed on the street he had every right to be on.
Of course, you are repeating what you believe to be true only.
Zimmerman observed a 6'3" person wearing walking about in the backyards of the townhouses of the gated community he was the elected Neighborhood Watch Officer in. He called police to report a suspicious "guy" (not a kid) walking about in the rain, looking at the houses. He prefaced that information by telling the dispatcher "We've had a lot of breakins and thefts in this community lately. (Over 400 calls for police assistance had been made from the community over the last year, there had been numerous thefts and arrests, some assaults, and one shooting prior. Zimmerman, who had taken and passed a Police Neighborhood Watch Course for citizen volunteers, had been credited by police for providing the necessary information that led to several arrests of trespassers, and suspected criminals involved with breaking in and thefts, and had made one citizens arrest himself prior). Reports show of the 400+ calls to police Zimmerman had made only 40+ of them in the past year.
NBC News early on in this "news" coverage had released a distorted version of conversation Zimmerman had with the police dispatcher. Although for their own designs on this case to meet their agenda of ginning up the story to one of sensational race baiting to improve their ratings, gain sale of their products, and help meet their agenda of rallying concern of elements of the Democrat Party support groups, while distracting the populace from the discussion of critical issues of the failure of the Obama Adminstration's economic, financial, energy, defense, and health care policies in this election year, NBC has been exposed as having edited that tape of the conversation to make it appear Zimmerman was racially profiling a "black guy", when in fact all he did was answer the dispatcher's questions as to what did the guy look like, "was he white, black, hispanic"" and hesitating, Zimmerman answered haltingly "He looks black." To the question the dispatcher asked "what is he wearing", Zimmerman answered "A light hoodie, gray maybe, sweatshirt and jeans." NBC had edited out the questions put to Zimmerman by the dispatcher looking for identifying information if he was to dispatch a police unit, so that their adulterated version of the converstion sounded and read to be Zimmeman: "A suspicious guy, just walking around, looking around....He looks black...he's wearing a hoodie! NICE HUNNH? RACIST, SIGNED-SEALED-DELIVERD! Once exposed, do they admit it, and apoligize, and issue a correction? OH NO! They simply issue a statement that they are conducting an internal review into their editorial policies and procedures. WTF!
And you folks that continue to repeat their slandar, their race baiting, their untruths, are like the debris caught up in a snowball rolling down hill, getting bigger and bigger, gaining speed. For shame, for shame. Who exactly are the real racists here in this sorry episode that has rattled our social fabric over the past month now!
Out of this NBC and MSNBC and their rabid followers have woven a wicked web of accusations of racial profiling and shooting in cold blood of a black child by a white man...just the kind of bull@!$%# that will raise the rabble in their desire to deceive. And Oh What Wicked Webs We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive!" Indeed!
Racism in America...that's where in crime threatened neighborhoods black people live in abject fear of being robbed, raped and assaulted and killed by black criminals running amok. The rates of black on black crime that continue to spiral out of control should be drawing the attention of the "news" media, and the black community leaders. That is what is killing your youth, over 93% of all black youth shot to death in this country were injured and/or killed by black shooters.
Time to step up and get real!
Rick Santorum is a pure tea-party republican racist pig! Santorum on the campaign trail, speaking at Janesville Armory....caught himself in the nick of time, just short of calling President Obama a ni**er.
Rick Santorum said, "We know the candidate Barack Obama... what he was like... the anti- war government nigg." umum america was a source.............
"the anti-war nigg"
"the anti- war nigg"
This man has no respect for the president of the United State & no respect for women....and Mitt Romney is on the same page as Santorum....WOMEN WILL REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER.............
So let's lynch Zimmerman, an Hispanic property and casualty insurance underwriter who voluntered as the neighbood watch, and volunteered with his wife to tutor and mentor youth of all ages who shot and killed his attacker, the trespassing "suspicious guy" in the backyards of townhouses in the gated communit Zimmerman lived in.
Martin is dead, Zimmerman told police he shot him in self defense as Martin had angrily knocked him to the groung, and pinned him down reigning blows to his head and trying to drive his head into the concrete, even as Zimmerman called out for help, that didn't come.
OH YES, AND THE SOURCE OF ALL THE RACE BAITING DISTORTION OF TRUTH AND FACT that has so inflamed the black community, assisted to spur calls for killing Zinnerman and his parents and another elderly couple of the same name, and bountiewss offered by black militants for the assistance leading to the kidnapping of Zimmerman (a federally ivestigatable criminal conspiracy and a conspiracy of race hatred civil right violation that the Holder-Obama Justice Department remain moot about) all fueled by the distorted, irresponsibe nightly "news" dis-sembling reporting and commentary that threatens the solidariity of our society in this election year are the SOURCES YOU TRUST? GET REAL OR GET LOST!
Lynching is to good for Zimmerman... he should suffer life in prison..without parole. He killed a 17 year old child. If Zimmerman had of minded his own business,Trayvon Martin would be alive today. He did not have to get out of his vehicle and follow Trayvon.
Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 dispatcher, he has caused his own circumstance....
linda:
17 year olds are considered adults in the eyes of the law in cases of violent crimes, and assault is a violent crime.
17 year old youths served often in the armed forces of the United States, and also many of our allies armed forces.
Martin, all 6'3" over 160 lb of weight lifting muscles from his Fall football year, was at the time of his demise from justifiable shooting in self defense assaulting a man 6 inches shorter than him, and refused to heed the calls from an eyewitness adult to STOP!, continuing to reign blows down on the head of the man lying under him on the wet grass and sidewalk where he had initiated the fight. He got his tough hardass shot by his actions that night, and that is the truth of this matter.
Keith,
I see you're a witness now to a capital crime? The evidence is certainly pointing to a completely different conclusion; but you go ahead and work it out however you need to in order to justify the MURDER of Trayvon Martin.
If you're lucky, you'll get to hand pick your jury and your judge, too!
Racial Profiling is not okay. Pursuing someone when you have a loaded weapon makes YOU the aggressor. Using your firearm after YOU'VE picked the fight is NOT okay. Many people would see that as premeditated. The initial pursuit was PREMEDITATED.
Clara...It is I who have recited the facts of eyewitness statements supporting Mr. Zimmerman, and the immediate Police reports on this issue.
You hoeever seem to be caught up in the wicked web spun by a distorting media, and falsehoods conjectured up out of false air. You, the race baiting media on a campaign of riling up the suposed Obama base of the black comunity in this election year, and attepting to distract from the real issues of failures of this President and his Party in policies of economic, financial, energy, defense, and health care that continue to drive up the costs of living and weaken our national security, especially hurting the hard hit minorities whose inner city comminities wrestle with rising crimes of property and personal violation pf breaking traspass, breaking and entering theft, rape, assault, and killings as a black on black and black on brown of epidemic propositions.
The Special Prosecutor of African American heritage who bragged that she never used a grand juty and would make the cal herself on whrther or not there was sufficient evidence found in her team's investigation to arrest and seel an indictment through a show cause hearing is washing her hands of that responsibility by putingt it before a diverse ethnic citizenry convened as a grand jury to determine if an indictment is even possible before any arrest and movement to an unspeedy trial some two years down the road.
Why don't you and the media turn your attentions to the daily rash of violent assaults and shooting and killings by bkackj gang members of themselves and innoncent black bystanders in the uncivilized wars on the streets of those communities at a level that rivals the Congos and Sudans and Somalias and Nigerias simmering civil wars?
Time to step up, and make a difference instead of witlessly trying to incite rioting on a cockamamy tale of racial profilinf and white indiscriminate killing of blacj youth. WTF do you think you are accomplishing by your foolishness and cowardice?