In a heated two-part interview on The Last Word, Joe Oliver defended George Zimmerman, the man who killed Trayvon Martin and discussed his involvement in the case.
MSNBC's Lawrence O’Donnell, Charles Blow, a New York Times columnist, and Jonathan Capehart, a Washington Post columnist, each took turns quizzing Oliver about his six-year friendship with his co-worker, Zimmerman.
Oliver "wanted to clarify" the characterization of him as a "close friend," as many news outlets have been suggesting. He said considered himself more of an "older uncle" figure.
Oliver also told the Last Word panel he knows in "his heart" that Zimmerman was in a life or death situation before he pulled the trigger. He said it comes down to a "gut feeling." Though, he admitted Zimmerman never shared details about past brushes with violence and the law.
No one else on set was buying it. "You don’t really know George Zimmerman if you don’t know those things about George Zimmerman," Blow charged, throwing cold water on the depth of their interactions.
While he continued to stand by Zimmerman's character, perhaps, Oliver said it best himself, "My role in this just doesn't make sense."
It was a tense talk. But at least Oliver showed up, unlike Craig Sonner, who ditched out on our interview moments before air.
Check out both part one and part two of the interview now.
Leave a Comment:
Why is this guy getting any screen time? Looks to me like an out of work actor/ex anchor who misses the camera. He has nothing relevant to add, and you guys are just enabling the guy!!
OK, Lawrence, you were a crazy man last night - Is there a reason you were so vague regarding Joe Oliver's work past - Why not call him out.
Dude, will probably get a job at Faux after this !!!
He's getting screen time because he actually KNOWS something about one of the participants in the incident.
As opposed to the bald headed guy, and the other guy with the overly thick, doofus looking horn rims who O'Donnell had on the show throughout this past week; neither of whom know their asses from wholes in the ground, let alone the law, or any single fact about this case!
Joe the Bummer is an out of work wannabe newsman who knows very little about Zimmerman and even less about the incident.
Lawrence is the man to watch on TV...WOW! Just watched the interview again, after watching him live last night, and it's better the second time around. Joe Oliver got bushwhacked and rightfully so. Dude quit his job to defend a dude he obviously doesn't know very well and he talks about what he feels in heart? How idiotic can one be???? Lawrence was throwing questions at him so fast, you could see the gears turning and Oliver knew he was in trouble as soon as he was asked about working with Zimmerman and the work-over "Good Cop/Bad Cop" that Charles Blow and Jonathan Capehart put on him was absolutely exceptional. I was on the floor damn near the whole time!
Joe Oliver DESTROYED O'Donnell! He took the abuse, and answered every single question. Personally, I would have told O'Donnell to go @!$%# himself, and then I would have walked off.
Who the @!$%# is Lawrence O'Donnell to tell Joe O. that his word isn't good enough for America?
It's Lawrence O'Donnell's word that isn't good enough for America! He just wants to see this kind of controversy continue so he can exploit it for rating purposes on his show.
But, all O'Donnell is really doing is fanning the flames of division and racial hatred. He isn't going to be satisfied until more blood is spilled.
This isn't about truth, justice or the American way. It's about O'Donnell making a name for himself as being controversial, and thereby boosting the viewership of his show.
Too bad for him, there are decent people out there like Joe Oliver who know, and want to get to the truth.
Joe the Bummer handled himself really well - he is after all an out of work actor/newsman. Truth is he's a fraud and barely knows Zimmerman and knows even less about the case. He's perfect for FAUX .....
His "role" in this makes complete sense to me...he is playing the "role" of the "Black BFF" so all the racists can say "see, he even has a Black best buddy, how can he be racist...".
I lived in the south for many years. This is the way things go down there...indeed, this is the way it goes everywhere when racists are called out....
Oh, and they like to use the phrase "reverse racism"...as in "oh, those Black people are guilty of 'reverse racism'"....Well, there is no such thing. Racism is RACISM whether it comes from White people or Black people...hate is hate is hate....THAT is what makes no sense in this world.
Thank you for doing such a good job on this Lawrence...and Reverend Al, as well...He was broadcasting from Dothan Alabama yesterday...where I lived for almost 30 years...a genuine Pit of Life.
".......... Racism is RACISM whether it comes from White people or Black people...hate is hate is hate.... ...."
yeah, your'e right, and YOUR posrt is a perfect example of it!
Facts be damned! You just hate the George Zimmerman's of the world and you want to see him burn for no other reason than the fact that he had the guts to fight back.
@J.MerleStanley, aside from you attempting to identify Rebecca as a hating racist (perhaps you misunderstood context of words you quoted?), your post was too ambiguous to make any sense of what you were trying to say.
Please clarify. On what stereotype, personal attributes, or ideology are you personally cataloguing "George Zimmermans of the world". And what is it you believe Zimmerman was fighting back against?
Larry,
You have certainly distinguished yourself this week!! Such high brow, even handed interviews!! Why.... can a Pulitzer be far off? Your journalistic flair for venile, rude, over talking, leading and misstated interviews begs the question as to where you received your communications training. I am betting at the Iowa State Fair Keokuk Pig Calling Derby. Again, congratulations on some great television! With any luck at all, you and Olberman could share a show on Ukrainian Public TV called: "Recollections of True Statements of Rev. Al Sharpton". Unfortunately, the Producer wanted a Non-Fiction show.
Damn! For a minute there I thought you were talking about Bill O'Reilly.....until you said the Producer wanted a Non-Fiction show!
Momus,
You may have to step it up a notch mentally to keep up. Should I type slower?
WOW! Is that the best you can come up with pud? Small minds are easily misled and you, ma'am, exhibit the intellectual capacity of my 8 year old.
Gumby12........O'Donnell doesn't care about truth in reporting or anything else. The only thing he cares about are his ratings.
Be damned if somebody gets "railroaded" by the law, or worse; shot and killed.
All of that is acceptable to him, as long as he keeps his show on the air.
By the way, I was just wondering; when is O'Donnell going to have Al Sharpton on his show to answer when the good reverend is going to pay Steven Pagones the money he owes him?
Or maybe, he can do an interview with OJ from jail, and "The Juice" can explain to us all why he hasn't paid the Goldman family the money he owes to THEM.
Or, better yet; maybe O'Donnell can have one of the leaders of the New Black Panther Party on his show to ask them why they think it's legal to put a $10,000.00 bounty on someone's head?
Sorry Larry....but your last word just isn't good enough for America.
Watched the interview and have seen Joe on other networks. I haven't heard him mention what George Zimmerman has told him about the 46 calls made to police over the past year. Since law enforcement is Zimmerman's primary interest in life, I'd think a conversation between friends would sometimes turn to what's new in his life, perhaps even discussing what to do about all the suspicious people in the neighborhood.
Zimmerman may have established rapport with police on those calls and therefore they simply took his word for what happened at the scene that night.
Joe Oliver so call George Zimmerman friend...Where did they get this fake?... he is such a phony.
Many question this case and the reasons for no arrest. The answer is simple and the lone missing link. Zimmerman's Dad is a retired Judge and the decision was made by his friends the Police Chief and State Attorney. Other charges against Zimmerman have been closed decisions and it was to help a fellow member of the legal system. Now before anyone jumps to say this is wrong it was done when Bush had a DUI as his record was expunged for his run for Governor.
http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/
jacki:
If i had a dismissed case from when I was age 21 for shoving a police officer who was bullying my brother, and had filed a competing petition for a restraining order against a finance and years later at age 28 was put into the situation of shooting in self defense a beligerant 6'3" trespasser who was attempting to bash my head in on a concrete sidewalk, I wouldn't expect the law to use the former minor incidents against me. Why bleeding heart liberals like yourself continue to insist that there be an arrest of Zimmerman is way, way beyond me. But I'm sure you will continue to try to make your case any way you can.
Keith...Well, considering Trayvon wasn't a "trespasser" I guess that means they can take his past into consideration. He was a guest at someones home who lived in the community, so THAT gave him the right to walk through the neighborhood. Zimmerman had absolutely no right to question him and Trayvon had no obligation to answer any of his questions. Zimmerman instigated the situation and should be held responsible for the outcome. Plain and simple!
Incorrect:
Martin was kicked out of his Mother's home after his third suspension from highschool and his father's girlfriend provided him shelter in her home NEAR the gated community where Martin was trespassing at night. Zimmerman was acting as a Captain of the neighborhood watch in the gated community, and under the laws for property owners and their authorized representatives had a duty to accost and inform a trespasser that he, Martin, was indeed trespassing.
Keith....Nope! Not at all. Do you know where they were when he supposedly got beat up by Martin? They were less than 22 meters from his father's girlfriend backyard, on the sidewalk. If that's the case, Zimmerman followed him off the property, which he had no right to "accost or inquire" about anything, although that's not the case. But, let's just say for @!$%#s and giggles that he was walking through a gated community where he wasn't staying, that still didn't give Zimmerman the right to question him and if he ran up on him and tried to apprehend him, which Zimmerman has no legal right to do, he deserved to get his ass kicked! Just like if YOU walked up on me for walking through your neighborhood, it wouldn't be any questions asked and you wouldn't have any hero stories to tell your kids, I guarantee you that!
Incorrect:
Keith his father lived in the gated communtiy and as a former neighborhood watch person for 12 years in the rule book it clear say if you can read that no form of weapons should be carried that means Keith no pepper spary or firearms and it also state in the rule book that you should call the POLICE and not take thing into your own hands. Even when the police told Zimmerman not to follow what did he do? he follow so if this 120 lb child did attack him guess what he have every right to do so. this is a STRANGER do you what a stranger is keith somebody this child do not know and people are taking our children everyday do you not see the missing poster of children his age and younger missing what world do you live in if you think that this child did not have the right to hold his own against a 250lb fool come on keith give me a break. Don't put this black man on here to shut me and all the black people up because it not going to work we are very educated black people.
Rochelle:
The firearm carry laws of the State of Florida supercede any 12 year old guidelines for neighborhhod watch personnel, as does the stand your ground law. Mr Zimmerman was never "told to stop following" Martin by police in the phone call he, Zimmerman, initiated asking for police to be dispatched, he was simply advised by a clerk emergency dispatcher that "We don't need you to do that", to which Zimmerman answered "Okay".
Tonight, CNN did a piece on Flint, Michigan, the city with 55 shooting deaths in the last year. Apparently in an effort to stop the rampant rise in violent and property crimes, the Neighborhoods with police approval have formed watch teams, composed of black and white residents together who do go to the streets armed on their rounds, Rochelle. Unfortunately, the hard hit economy brings out the property violators, and Mr. Zimmerman said he was motivated to his watch role as a property owner in the gated community who was concerned by the rash of recent breakins and property theft and damage.
Its a tragic end of a young life, but an adult approaching a youth asking "What are you doing here" on private property, should not have been met with a toughed up attitude of "You got a problem...you do now", followed by a punch in the face and an attempt to beat the watch officer's brains out on a cement sidewalk.
Martin was not a "120 lb child", he was a 6'3" late teens high school football player weighing over 150 lbs, and he quickly had floored with one blow the 5'9" pudgy, out of shape 28 yr old Zimmerman, and continued his assault on the prone man who was calling for helpthat did not come. Its also a shame that the only recent picture his loving family had of Trayvon to give to the media was one of him as a middleschool student, from which the impression that he was an innocent, happy young child was generated. Three suspensions from high school, one for suspicion of jewlrey theft and having a burglery tool (a screwdriver), and another for possession of drug paraphenellia and marijuana residue show problems of thought and acts, and a twitter account where he bragged on "swinging" at a school bus driver all point to a youth going the wrong way in life. Its a tragedy, and I say that as a former teacher and mental health professional that worked with disturbed youth.
I think we are on the same side, we just see things from the perspective of our own experiences. We need more Norm Cosbys and Martin Luther Kings and Errin Burnetts in our society, and less of the stridency of the Spike Lees, Al Sharptons, and Larry O'Donnells!
Wrong again. If the watch says no firearms, he is not permited to carry it while "on duty". Maybe you need to watch the police video. It shows NO sign of a fight. NO blood. NO grass stains. NO broken nose. But continue to defend this creep. Maybe you son will be next.
larry74
You have actual LAWS and you have RULES. What LAW that he can not carry a gun is he breaking?
If he actually violated any LAW, then he would be arrested for that correct? I do not think that the Police arrest if you VIOLATE A WATCH RULE?
In addition, he was not on "active" WATCH patrol at the time. So do you think he would be in compliance at this point with both the LAW and the RULES?
Let me know ?
X321....It's really simple you see. The LAW may say he can carry a concealed weapon, but the RULES of the complex where he lives may say he can't keep firearms on the premises or carry them while on "neighborhood watch" as a condition of living there and that's where the RULES can override the LAW! He may have a RIGHT to carry a weapon, but he doesn't have a RIGHT to live there.
The law supersedes the rules huh? So iIguess that means I can carry my gun into any business, school or even on a plane. Since after all the LAW supersedes the rules right? Anyone of you bright bulbs call me when you take your gun into the court house then argue how the law supersedes the rules ok? I want to watch you convince a judge. LOL
The restrictions intra state on carry permits and where lawful carry is or is not allowed are part and partial of the law. Additionally, the Supreme Court has recently ruled that municipalities and counties may have laws passed if they are not onerous to the general laws of carry privaleges of the state. The laws (not rules) for firearms carry on commercial flights and airports intra state and inter state or international are under the administration of the FBI, and are federal laws.
oliver should have asked larry and blow why they refuse to denounce spike lee for giving out zimmerman address and refusing to denounce black panthers putting out a bounty on zimmerman. turns out spike gave out the wrong address and the people who live there a couple in their 70s have recieved death threats and are in hiding. obama also has not denounced spike or the black panthers.
What's the address?
Momus,
Is that all you got?? What's the address? At this rate, you and Blow could be on Mensa Larry's interrogation panel.....
Black vs white... right vs wrong...
It's not too difficult to see where individual interests lie. Some prejudgement obsessions with Zimmerman are creating the appearance of admiration of the worst attributes assigned him. This must be a club thing.
Most people are more anxious for a proper investigation, and any arrest.
I was glad to find news today that he was indeed relieved of his weapon. That had me concerned. I find it frustrating that I was under a false impression until now.
Maybe because that wasn't what the program was about. Maybe because those are being investigated by the FBI. You keep protecting this mureder. Maybe you want another inocent teenager to die as well.
Actually there was no need for either of them to ask since there have been arrests already made. Doh, you didn't know that? I'm not surprised. You have to actually want to know to make the minimal effort it takes to find out.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-04/news/31122324_1_white-boy-fire-tv-station
Lawrence, thank you so much for ripping this guy a new one.
It was a joy to behold.
He is a complete fraud and looking for nothing more than a book deal or a job on Fox Spews.
He stinks as much as this whole case does.
As a 51 year old black man I have come to understand that white folks fear are more inportant that black folks rights. Look down though history with this in mind it explains a lot. Keep up the good work
How do we know the video you show of Zimmerman outside the police station is real or when it was recorded?
Wasn't the story that Zimmerman was beaten in the face and had injury to the back of his head and that there was stains on the back of his jacket, because I'm not seeing signs of any of those things in the video of at the station. A bloody and possibly broken nose can be cleaned yes, but it can't become un-red in such a short amount of time. An injury to the back of the head? no redness or marks in the video either. The jacket didn't seem to be to messed up in the back either, doubt that they took the time to clean off 'stains' before they got him to the station. He appeared in pretty good shape for a full grown adult man who supposedly got so badly beaten by a seventeen year old young man that he had to pull his 'notsomanly' 9mm gun. A gun is a wimps way out.
Why don't you wait to see the crime scene photos that are protocol for this type of incident. The Police would have taken photo BEFORE he was attended to by the SFD.
I would say this is more relevant than a video that might be 30-60-120 minutes after the event. I also think the report says his back was WET with grass on it. I would have to go back and see if it used the word "STAINS". This grass could come off after the water dried and the car ride to the station...
Just wait a little longer....
I guess you never saw a knocked out boxer later get up, have his badly bleeding face attended to, and after standing in center ring to have the announcer raise the victors arm, turn and walk to his dressing room.
Only a fool would assert he needed to personally see the bloody evidence on a poorly lit, grainy brief video an hour or more after Zimmerman was attended to by para-medics at the scene of the incident in order to believe the police report of his physical appearance when they arrived at the scene.
Only a fool that's never been in a real fight or never suffered a broken nose before would look at Zimmerman and say he might have been in a fight. When a person gets their nose broken, especially with the amount of time having elapsed, from the fight to him going to the station, his mug would've been swollen. Not only that, but IF he indeed had received medical treatment you can rest assure that the EMT would have, at the very least, put some type of tape over the bridge of his nose. Zimmerman is a coward that brought a gun to a fist fight and that's that!
Well, if you watch the police video of Zimmerman getting out of the car, just before they start to go into the station one of the cops moves behind Zimmerman and is seen looking at the back of Zimmerman's head. Shortly thereafter Zimmerman starts to move in the direction of the station and when he is near the right rear corner of the police car you can see a "mark" of some kind, possibly up to several inches long, on the top back of his head. I'm sure the EMT report will reveal any wounds although privacy will keep them from the public for the time being.
On another look the "mark" I mentioned above may be video artifact and/or shadow.
Get job tonight LO, as always!
I agree, LO should "get" a job.......
I may be wrong, but I thought that the Florida law that made it wrong to arrest Zimmerman said that one had the right to 'stand his/her ground' actually says that one needs to have the right to be at that place and not be engaged in any unlawful activity. My question is whether Zimmerman had any right to be there and whether his activity was illegal once the 911 dispatcher told him to stop following Martin. If anyone can clarify this I would appreciate it. Thanks.
OK,
GZ has the right to be there as much as TMor yo and I for that matter.
AS for the dispatcher, GZ has NO OBLIGATION AT ALL to head any suggestions or orders from the dispatcher. But I submit that the 911 call show the GZ did comply by saying "OK" and that he said TM was gone and I am heading back to truck to wait for Police.
I hope that helps you understand more.
Actually there have been at least two cases where black men have shot white men citing the law as their defense but as you may haves guessed the black men were arrested and the cops/AG's told them they had to prove their claims in court. One did, one didn't.
It appears the "stand your ground law" applies to white men.
I'm also curious because it would appear to me that the law actually applied to Trayvon not Zimmerman. Just because a law is passed it does not mean you will automatically win a fight. However, it appears that if you're the last one standing then the dead guy is guilty.
This is why we shouldn't have idiots like ALEC writing laws in secret and then passing them without public support. That is not democracy. Especially when laws are not needed. It's just like the anti-women and anti-voting laws they are writing and getting the Republican legislators to pass. ALEC needs to be investigated and closed down. These right wingers will close down public groups but allow these secretive, anti-democratic groups to operate despite their horrible influence on our society. It's a disgrace.
I will not want to debate the "why and why not's" of all cases in history. Each has their own merits and evidence.
I would say that in this case there was 3rd party witness statements that were in agreement with GZ. This does not mean that GZ is not guilty.
I would like to say if he is arrested too early two things are likely to happen.
1. They must bring charges against GZ in 36 hours. If the charges are HALF-BAKED then it actually hurts the case that might happen later. At this point the Police can take their time to get a VERY clear picture using forensics to get a better case at GZ if any.
2. The Police can be sued over false arrest if there is not evidence to support the arrest. The problem is that they actually had evidence to support GZ at this time.
Something everyone is missing here is that Zimmerman claims Trayvon, the kid he chased down, was sitting on his chest, had pinned down his arms and was punching him in the face, when Zimmerman managed to free his gun and shoot him in the chest.
For those of you who haven't been in any armed conflicts if a man is sitting on your chest and you shoot him while he is on top of you there would be massive amounts of blood all over the front of your body and on your clothes. That is unless Trayvon was a bloodless robot. Stay tuned for Foxs' claims that Trayvon was a bloodless robot tomorrow morning!
There will be evidence of blood. The witness place TM on top of GZ. No need to jump to any other conclusion at this point. Maybe new forensic evidence will change that but for now we must use the current facts and nothing more..
What witness? I just heard a witness on a 911 call at the time that claimed Trayvon was on the ground yelling for help. That jives with everything we have seen and heard. I think you're living in a fantasy world.
Go to the sanford police site and read the reports. The witness claims the GZ was on the bottom and it was GZ yelling for help call 911. This witness then went into his home to call 911.
So, you do have one actual witness that had GZ doing the yelling. The other 911 recordings all state that they do not know who is yelling just that there was screams.
. Why do you all the sudden you "KNOW" that is TM and not GZ as the other witness has stated in person??
A 9mm bullet wound to the chest through a sweatshirt and shirt layered clothing will not produce blood splatter or "massive bleeding". If the bullet struck the aeortic artery or the heart of the deceased, there would by internal bleeding in the deceased, however.
Keith,
I never said that there is or is not blood. The forensic folks will get to that. How much blood do you think should be there if he was blown backwards. Maybe there is a blood mist all over GZ. I would expect there to be this evidence but NOT what you would think from the movies.
Gravity does take a some time for blood to POUR out and he might no longer be on-top of GZ as he is in the grass face forward..
Just the facts please not movie stuff for now
The forensic people will tell us if the splatter is consistent or not. Not me or you.
So there are conflicting witnesses. Now we have to look at evidence. Did GZ chase him down? Yes. Would you fight back? Maybe not. Most don't but I and most of my friends (military) would. Now if you shot someone sitting on your chest as he claimed, and his (GZ) story has changed now multiple times there would be blood all over your clothes but there wasn't. The cops should/would have collected those clothes. Where are they? The fact the GZ's story has changed so many times is never good. It is a sign that someone isn't telling the truth. The fact that the lead investigator, a seasoned detective, didn't believe his story and wanted to arrest him but when was told not to actually filed an affidavit to that effect is truly amazing. Cops NEVER do that. Clearly this detective wanted an OFFICIAL record stating that he disagreed with his chief AND the prosecuting attorney. That my friends could be a career killer but this detective obviously felt that there were some shenanigans going on and he didn't want to be held legally responsible for other peoples, lets say questionable, decisions.
Legally speaking, I would love this case as a lawyer. There are dozens upon dozens of reasons why GZ is in the wrong and should go down. The stand your ground law definitely doesn't apply. Even the authors of the law have said that. Life is about decisions and GZ made way too many wrong decisions here and they resulted in the death of a high school kid. He's trying to assert his innocence and I understand that. But remember there are millions of men in our prisons who claim they are innocent.
Massive amounts of blood?? I am not familiar with a 9 mm, but some bullet wounds are fairly clean upon entry. It is the resulting hemorrhaging you may be thinking of.
From what i hear, the gun residue can be just as helpful as evidence.
Witness accounts are auditory, for the most so far. It may jive for you, but auditory accounts will need some collaborative forensic analysis to help piece what happened together.
No we do not have conflicting witness. Actually all the winless state the same core facts.
1. They hear a fight.
2. They hear Screaming
3. They hear a gun shot.
But what we also have is some witnesses have more details in addition to the above:
4. They see a person in a gray/white shirt on top of a person in a red shirt.
5. One states that GZ was yelling at him to help and call 911.
Whit your statement of him chasing TM down right now just did not happen. There is not one release fact that GZ ever made contact. Again go listen to the 911 tape of GZ talking to 911. GZ is in the CAR for almost the entire call. Only momentarily did he exit the car to keep an eye on TM. NEVER do you have facts that GZ was within 20 yards of TM at this point.
BTW.. I really doubt theta the stand your ground will even be used. GZ at this point (this point only) can use the basic "defending my life". No need for stand your ground yet...
I do believe whosoever instigated any mutual perception of threat is an important factor in this. Everyone has the right to protect themselves. Nobody should have the right to instigate a threat without an appropriate measure of accountability for the results.
Hey Lawrence, what I don't understand, is how Zimmerman, who was in his car, somehow managed to get behind/between the houses, on the sidewalk, get into a fight with Trayvon Martin, and kill an unarmed 17 year-old.
And according to the times on the police report, from the inital call Zimmerman made to the EMT pronouncing Martin dead all took place in the span of 13 minutes. really?
Zimmerman makes a 911 call, clock starts, he's on the phone with them for a little over 2 minutes, somehow in the next 11 minutes he is claiming that he followed but lost sight of Martin,and was walking back to his SUV, Martin supposedly comes out of nowhere and attacked him, (and now his father is saying their were words and Martin threatened to kill Zimmerman so there's more time gone) punched him in the face and broke his nose and knocked him off his feet, jumped on top of him an proceeded to bang his head on the sidewalk, goes for his gun and Zimmerman gets it and he shoots Martin. Police 1 shows up, talks to zimmerman, Police 2 shows up, attempts CPR on martin, FD shows up, attempts mpore CPR. no response they pronounce Martin dead. And ALL of this suposedly took place in 13 minutes. The accounting of the police reports puts everything from the initial call to the pronouncing of martin dead all happening in the span of 13 minutes. Really?
Don't you think it would be a good idea to let the police conclude their investigation before joining the rather shrill and embarrassing lynch mob that seems to have formed over this death. Why not let the police do their jobs. While the level of hysteria surrouding this does not surprise me, it certainly saddens me to see that people never change. I swear to God, if it turns out that this kid caused his own death via a series of bad choices, I am going to make it my lifes work to never let you all forget your incredibly hystericla behavior and the fact that no one seems to want to wait until all the facts are made public...........and they will be. So remember what you said in regard to this incident............particularly the O'Donnells and all the woman on those day time talk shows and all the other talking heads from the "news media"......Unbelievable!
AGREE 10 point for you....
I'm sorry guys. I'm ex-military. If someone with a gun is following me and then starts chasing me there's going to be trouble. There is no question the guy with the gun chasing you down is the guy at fault.
First I could care less that you are ex-military. You have the same requirements under the law.
You need to understand the the watch programs all around the USA ask you to call 911 when you see something strange. The Dispatcher was asking GZ where is he now. GZ was in his car during most of this call. Only after TM ran did GZ get out to keep "Eyes-on"
It is ONLY at this point that the dispatch asked him not to follow. GZ said "OK" and that TM was GONE. GZ returns to car. NOT ONE TIME DID GZ MAKE PHYSICAL CONTACT DURING THIS TIME....
Sorry but thesis the facts at this time. Maybe the girlfriend will add something new...
There is nothing known that Martin knew Zimmerman was carrying. And it makes absolutely no sese that if he was aware Zimmerman possesed a firearm, he would then have accosted him and punched him and continued his assault. And as a former military man myself, I would hope you would not disgrace us with anymore of that cocky bravado talk. The loudest braggards in the American Legion, VFW, and Vietnam Veterans Association bars were always those who were never in a combat theatre.
Ajax-The police would have never even commenced with an investigation if it hadn't been for the public outcry. The police were not doing their jobs. It is only because the citizenry demanded some justice (or the appearance of justice) that the law decided to investigate. What will you make your life's work if 'this kid's' death was caused by a series of bad choices made by his murderer? Will you endeavor to see to it that injustices like this never happen again? Or will you relentlessly scour recent homicides for cases that proves your biases and makes you feel better atop that high horse from which you look down upon 'others'?
Sorry X321 you're wrong. You need to understand neighborhood watch programs. Look them up. Rule 1. You're not allowed to carry a gun Rule 2. You're not allowed to follow once you call 911 to keep "eyes on" or not Rule 3. You never confront someone. That is for law enforcement only.
Nice try though with trying to make up the rules just like GZ did. To be clear if you or GZ had come up on me or my friends who do have years of combat experience unlike a kid then you would have respect for our military forces for about one second just before you met your god.
Your also wrong about the sequence. GZ was in his car when he was told not to pursue. He agreed. Then he said, "He's running!" and took off while he mumbled a racial slur. Your understanding of the sequence of events is wrong, but that's not a surprise.
@sedwinmars If you drop a wallet, and some kid is chasing you down to try and give it back, please don't shoot him down before finding out what's up.
I didn't realize Martin knew there was a gun the whole time. Are we getting to the point we all should assume everyone is armed, and therefore assume everyone's an immediate threat, and therefore...................................................................................
NRA's wet dream = law enforcement nightmare.
There is a point to cocky bravado talk. People believe these days that they can just carry guns and confront anyone they think are out of place or they "think" look suspicious.
Warning! There are many men and women who are coming back from WAR. Remember what your mommy told you. Don't confront strangers because you don't know who they might be. Warriors don't react well to guns being put in their face. This legislation is a horrible piece of legislation because there are too many idiots who think they are John Wayne and there are too many people returning from war dealing with real wartime issues.
This isn't the first tragedy this legislation has wrought and it won't be the last. It needs to repealed. The problem is ALEC got the Republicans to pass it in 28 states. I foresee many future problems.
sedwinmars
OK here we go again.
The facts are the GZ was not. I say "WAS NOT ON ACTIVE WATCH/PATROL" It is pointed out in the report that he was on an errand when he saw a person acting strange and called 911.
Even if we use your interpretations of "watch rules" (these are not LAWS) here are the current facts and not "your imagination" that keeps taking you down the wrong path.
1. He has a CWP. He is not violate any law or perceived "WATCH LAW". BTW, THERE IS NO ACTUAL LEAGAL LAW THAT FORBIDS THIS. IT IS A GOOD RECOMMENDATION FROM THE POLICE THAT I AGREE WITH TOO.
2. HE was providing information to the Police. The dispatcher asked a few time where he is now so that the Police in-route can vector to TM. When he did leave his car (AGAIN HE HAS EVERY LEAGAL RIGHT TO DO SO) he does respond in the positive to stop the following of TM. Also I will point out that GZ has no obligation to head any command from the 911 operator. But the facts is that GZ did anyway.
3. Exactly WHERE did he confront TM. At this point there is not one fact during the CALL did GZ make ANY CLOSE contact with TM. YOu never hear TM on any tapes so he could not have been VERY close to confront correct ???
You really need to go listen to the 911 tapes. You can hear the CAR door open with the beeps and him moving / running as his breath is labored at this point ONLY then does the 911 operator ask him to stop. Please go listen to the tapes so I do not need to transcribe them to you anymore....
Just trying to help you figure out some of this. I am not the enemy. We all make mistakes, I just hope they are honest mistakes..
Read what I said. Chasing me WITH A GUN. I'm not a nut. Far from it. Even if you had a gun in your belt you're safe. But if you're stalking me. Parked. Watching me. I run and you start running after me.
Are you seeing differences. If I drop a wallet someone walks up and says hey did you drop your wallet.
sedwinmars,
I do not think the STAND YOUR GROUND will be used. At this point it does not apply when GZ can use the basic threat of "imminent harm or death to ones person"
BTW all laws get abused, can we argree on that? Just to balance out the negatives examples of the law there are also many positives such as the Oklahoma mom that shot two intruders coming into her house with her kids at home.
As you state many times, This "warrior" mom should be able to use this law in the correct way . Do you still disagree with this application of the law?
I tend to agree with you sedwinmars, and I would hope you're wrong, but I think we all realize our leaders and authorities don't always have the people's safety and best interests at heart. So, I guess change is now more dependent upon the people's collective, collaborative talents and experiences.
@x321 Castle or domain laws are not even in the same realm as stand your ground laws.
This is my point. Mistakes. It seems we used to take responsibility in this country but these days people don't. Whether it's taxes, or health care or killing a kid.
GZ is not a cop. He was not in his house or his car. TM wasn't robbing or assaulting anyone. GZ thought he "might be on drugs." He might "be up to no good."
So an armed man chased down a high school kid. Did the kid get scared and fight back because he thought a thug with a gun in his belt was going to kill him, rape him or rob him?
The only thing I know is an armed man chased down and shot a high school kid who was guilty of eating candy and drinking iced tea.
Mistakes. Admit your mistakes and take your punishment. Make something good of the situation and speak out against the horrible law. First things first. Apologize to his parents and the community before it tears the nation apart.
OK I guess we are done sedwinmars,
You keep adding into the events all these things like CONFRONT/ CHASE DOWN. Until you take a objective look at the facts and make a timeline then you might as well make a movie and star in it as the WARRIOR hero coming back to save all kids etc... "SEMPER FI"
locknpost
I am not stating that we are using castle either. I am stating from years ago each person has always had the individual right to defend their life. This legal right predates all these recent stand your ground and castle laws.
If someone starts chocking me in the library/Gas station.. then I can alway use basic self defense. This si what I am stating that he will not use "Stand your ground"
In terms of the mom in Oklahoma, Maybe I should use the Lubies cafeteria (SP?) in Waco Texas example? Might be more accurate. ;)
"Mistake" was the convenience of the past. "I feared" is the new killing privilege, where the burden of proof is dependent on an immediate investigation and determination, and where "his word" verses "his dead word" is no contest.
Please, no one needs to tell me how to spell hysterical, although i am wondering if i have discovered the new word "hystericla". i sort of like it actually. I wonder what it means?
I'm a former physically abused wife, and I guarantee you that if you are in a fight let alone a "life and death fight", Zimmerman should have at least had a stretched or torn shirt. His clothing was not evident of someone who had been in any kind of scuffle for any amount of time.
MsChola,
I am sorry if you had a this event. But you can not just translate your experience to this case. You do realize that on scene he did have blood nose and blood on the back of his head. He did get attention at the scene for SFD. They cleaned him up (AFTER CRIME SCENE PHOTOS TAKEN)
May I ask if this was also done to you. When the Police came to your aide did they take photos then allow you to have any blood and injuries cleaned up?
You and I can take the same punch and have very different results and bleeding effect. I would hope we agree on that?
Tallwater- Your comment is precisely the type of shrill reaction that I was talking about in my original post. Clearly the police anywhere in this countery investigate any violent event which results in a homicide just as I'm sure they were in the process of doing when the "public outcry" erupted. The "public outcry" was a result of the lack of an immediate arrest of the shooter in this case. I can't imagine what possible evidence or knowledge you might have to indicate they were not in the process of investigation simply because they did not make an immediate arrest. If you have that type of evidence in your possession, then you are duty bound to report it to the FBI or at very least, expose it in an appropriate news venue. However, I seriously doubt that you do. In my opinion, you are representative of the type of person for which any real evidence that disproves your pre-conceptions of the event are either irrelevent to you or are some sort of conspiracy to hide the truth of the matter. I have no doubt that now that a superceding law enforcement agency is involved, the truth will out. As well, I certainly have no bias one way or the other. To assume that I do is foolish because just like your non-definitive knowledge of this boy's death, you have no real knowledge of my bias or lack there of. My point was simply "all may not be as it seems". Try and think back to Al Sharpton and the Brawley girl fiasco if you want a representation of what I'm referring to.
hey Lawrence,
now finding out that Robert Zimmerman, father of George Zimmerman killer of Trayvon Martin, is a retired Virginia State Supreme Court Judg!
now we know how Joe Oliver can afford to stop working and defend the Zimmermans. his friendship has been bought and paid for. in his own words on your show, he didn't know why he was doing what he was doing.
no wonder Joe Oliver was ripped apart by your questioning of him and the lawyer ran away from your barrage because he probably hadn't gotten his most recent payment.
George Zimmerman is a Daddy's Boy who was playing cops & robbers with a real gun and unfortunately, real bullets, taking Trayvon Martin's life.
spoiled rich kid who's daddy {almost} got him off for murder.
sickening, just sickening!
Joe Oliver must feel like a fool, the video tape of Zimmerman getting out of the police car at the Sanferd police dept did not show any injury to the back of his head or any injury to his nose. The Task Force needs to do it's job. How much longer does this family have to wait for an arrest in their son's murder. Everyone knows there has been a cover-up, the police report was unbelievable. How many more lies will be told?
Liberals need a new crisis and this is it.If Trayvon was white this would be a non story. The liberal media is doing Obamas dirty work by dividing this country by class,gender and race. The hard left knows Obama can't win reelection without racial division. Where is the outrage in 90% of black murder victims being murdered by other blacks? Trayvons death was tragic,but it is being politicized by the liberal media for a specific reason. Justice will prevail in due time!
Make that racial and gender division.