Ron Paul's supporters love him. He's the guy voters turn to get the government out of their lives and pocketbooks. And he’s consistently not afraid to stand up to rowdy Republican debate audiences with his defiant anti-war stance. He wants to legalize drugs. He seems like the ultimate libertarian — until you hear his position on sex and reproductive rights.
MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell exposed Ron Paul as a "fake" libertarian because of his position on sex and birth control.
In this week's GOP debate, Ron Paul talked about his unyielding opposition to a woman's right to choose, saying the government should prevent all abortions — the standard Republican Party line.
A real libertarian wouldn't want the government to make any sort of law on sex among consenting adults.
Leave a Comment:
Do some research Lawrence...
He may not agree with it, but he does not believe that should be dealt with on the Federal level.
I may not agree with all of his beliefs, but at least he is not forcing them on us.
Don't distort the facts in the media, do the research! Paul has always said it is his view, based on his morals and believes as a Dr., but that government shouldn't dictate a persons rights or FREEDOM to choice! " you can do what you want and the government doesn't have a say just to protect voluntary choices, rather than the government dictating to the people and what they should do or shouldn't do about birth control" was on CNN
I can testify that wRONg Paul is consistent in his views. I'm living in his district for the moment, and he really believes in keeping Washington out of our affairs.
You know that stunt he pulls every year, giving back some of his Congressional office expense allowance? Know how he does it? LOUSY constituent service! Need help cutting thru the Socialist Security System--don't call Ron! He couldn't care less. Need help with any Federal office (except veteran's affairs--he knows who elects him) -- don't call Ron!
That money he gives back could be going to basic constituent services, but that would be getting his constituents used to relying on Washington to solve their problems. Ron don't do that.
By basic constituent services, I'm going to assume you mean that you'd like to have Dr Paul's office deal with problems outside of Congress. What he turns back are office expenses allocated to him that he doesn't use. You misunderstand the use of the funds and should do your research better. I find that really petty in the face of loss of rights, infiltration of our personal lives by DHS, the military, the FDA and now SOPA and NDAA. Those are what he's fighting for. Would you rather have personal rights restored or some service from an official's office?
Thank you for admitting wRONg Paul can't walk and chew gum at the same time! Of course we knew that already.
I choose both. One of the jobs of congresscritters is to help their constituents navigate the federal bureaucracy. They're supposed to know something about it; perhaps you mean wRONg doesn't, which I won't argue with.
And that work, that he doesn't do, is funded by office expenses, since it's done by congresscritters's offices and office staff.
Sounds like you're the one who needs to educate herself about how congress and congresscritters do their jobs!
Just so you know Angelo a congressman's job is not there to help you navigate Social Security. If you aren't getting help from your local office they will tell you to hire a lawyer. If you are making under a certain amount your state may even have programs to help cover the cost of hiring a lawyer.
Constituent service is and has been for a long, long time an integral part of a congresscritter's job. You are wrong on that point, BobB.
That doesn't mean they solve your problem, though sometimes they can. At the least they are supposed to tell you how to navigate the bureaucracy, which is what I've said through all my posts. Something wRONg Paul can't do. Shameful.
Isn't Fake and Libertarian redundant?
Wow, how dumb. It's the media that calls Ron Paul a libertarian. Lawrence is a fake journalist
The fake news media labels Ron Paul as a Libertarian. Ron Paul states he is a Republican with Libertarian viewpoints. So, let's see...because he's pro-life now he's a fake Libertarian? Lawrence O'Donnell is another one of those fake reporters that pretends to report the "news" when in reality he is just another media puppet that will do anything he is told and write what they tell him to write. You fools keep on bringing more and more people to support Ron Paul with all your lunacy.
I guess you watch Fox because its so fair and balanced. Paul is a fake and his son is just as stupid as his father. Mr. Paul and his medical practices never returned a dime of medicaid, medicare or any other type of government assistance provided to his patients. He is the classic example of a politicians throwing "red meat" to the unwashed, uneducated masses in the Republican Party. He plays to people who are too concerned with social issues to realize that they are voting against their own self interests. He also supports voting reform which disenfranchises the most vulnerable in our democracy. You can't have unrestricted freedom both ways. He either wants social, political and economic darwinism that invites no restriction on personal liberty/protection by the federal government or he wants the government to participate in a role that supports his political and social ideas. Either way he has contradicted himself by simply collecting his congressional salary.
lol Agoins32. You know why he never returned a dime of medicaid it is because he didn't ACCEPT IT! He would see people for free because they couldn't pay but you already knew that part didn't you.
get your facts right Lawrence, he said it's not the federal governments place to pass any law restricting freedom of the states to make those decisions. Just another attempt by the big money to silence the threat to their thieving ways.
This guy is a complete idiot. Ron Paul says the federal government should stay out of abortion and birth control. How is that not libertarian? This guy is a fake journalist!
By that reasoning the federal government should not be able to protect our civil rights when a state government wishes to remove them.
What a crock. If this is what passes for serious journalism these days America really is in serious trouble. This is nothing more than taking Dr. Paul's words out of context and spinning them in order to make him look bad. Congratulations, MSNBC now equals fake news reporting.
Actually I believe Ron Paul's statement on the "immorality" which leads to one using the pill was quite straightforward in its meaning. Now you're entitled to take his words any way you want; though if you really believe Lawrence was taking his words out of context, then what exactly was he trying to say?
And also, if you're going to be talking about fake news reporting, FOX News - though I dislike associating the word "news" with them at all - is the only one worthy of that.
The use of the pill or not really isn't the issue. The issue is that even if Paul believes immorality leads to use of the pill he would never use government force to enforce his views. That position of not using the force of government is a libertarian view.
This isn't about the Libertarian view of exceptionally small government presence. This is about their views on sex and whether or not Ron Paul's views are in line with that.
Two entirely different matters, which, if Lawrence is correct by his association with his Libertarian associates, it would seem that Ron Paul is at quite an odds with.
Sorry, but it is about the libertarian view as per the title of the article "Rewriting Ron Paul's fake libertarianism". Lawrence tried and failed to make it look like Paul is a fake libertarian but as I explained Paul's views are libertarian. It's that simple.
"Lawrence tried and failed to make it look like Paul is a fake libertarian"
What Lawrence actually said:
Please explain to me how YOU preventing me from making a free choice to have or not have an abortion or to use contraceptives or to deny me access to appropriate medical care is IN ANY WAY consistent with libertarian philosophy.
'Cause I'm listening.
Libertarian spokesman said Ron Paul is not a real Libertarian.
Ron Paul said he's not a Libertarian.
This guy is a complete idiot. Ron Paul says the federal government should stay out of abortion and birth control. How is that not libertarian? This guy is a fake journalist! I am also sick of the media labeling all of Ron Pauls supporters as drug addicts who just want legal drugs!
yes, i for one could care less about drugs being legal though i agree about the point made about the freedom of choice he makes along with the war on drugs and how many non violent offenders thrown in jail over the issue hurts the country. there are more important issues at hand. war! our economic collapse or how about ending the federal reserve that has not only enslaved us as a nation by devaluing our dollar but the world economy as well. i think these are more important issues. but these are some reasons i do not watch his show(not news) it's a show...
I afraid you did miss the point with this one.
He thinks drug use is immoral but the government should not outlaw it.
He thinks promiscuous sex is immoral, creates the need for condoms but doesn't think either should be outlawed.
Like most pro-life libertarians abortion is excepted from this reasoning because he considers it a taking of a life.
Unfortunately some things like segregation - private and non-federal state-sponsored - is subject to this reasoning. (ala Goldwater) .
I don't agree with him but inconsistent or fake does not apply.
The point of the Libertarian philosophy is not imposing your moral view points on others by use of government compulsion (economic or legal).
Its really not difficult to understand. You are generally much sharper than this.
gsamsabug- Thank you for saving me the time of having to type that all out. I like a lot of Dr. Paul's ideas but it's highly unlikely I would ever vote for him under normal circumstances. But as you have pointed out, he's been remarkably consistent in his views for quite some time.
He finds out-of-wedlock sex immoral. So what? As long as he doesn't advocate that the government try to impose his idea of morality on you he has every right to think whatever he likes.
I'm afraid Mr. O'Donnell that you're the one who looked fake on this one.
These are not "normal circumstances" so don't be afraid to vote for Paul/Napolitano. A vote for anyone else is a win for the gov't. (respectfully)
bravo!
If one were to think about what O'Donnell is really saying, is that he loves getting his piece of ass without having to suffer the results of responsibility. There is no ass better than a quiet piece of ass. He's ( Ron Paul) a christian, It is immoral fool. What decent woman would want you going up in her with a ring? And to boot, what about the kids having kids... that has turned out great, hasn't it? Second, Ron Paul has stated it is up to the states, not the Federal Government, to make that decision. Hello!!!
How much do you get paid to twist what people say? Just like the mainstream media saying all Ron Paul supporters are young and do drugs.. I am 41 and have never did drugs.. News from people like you is not real news its just for entertainment purposes only.. That fact of the matter is Santorum is a fake and Ron Paul is honest.. Don't you wish you had half the integrity Ron Paul has???
If you were listening closely, you'd have realized that they merely said a majority of Ron Paul supporters were young people, etc. Please don't take it so personally that, as a Paul supporter yourself, you weren't mentioned in their commentary.
Also, as one who has been watching Lawrence for a while, I don't believe him the kind of person who would concern himself comparing his integrity with another's.
How is this news and on President's day 1000's of veterans/Ron Paul supporters Marched on the White House? and No news coverage
The "machine" refuses to let anyone know that the troops support Paul more than any other candidate. It's a taboo in the MSM. I'm new to politics but if you'd like to get some real unbiased news, I suggest PersonalLibertyDigest .com. I've sifted thru tons of crap and Bob Livingston's site is great.
41 is young.
Larry, you're out of our depth here. Libertarianism itself doesn't take a position on abortion. Libertarianism is based on the Non-Aggression Principle. Now the abortion question turns on a metaphysical question: when does human life begin, and the rights which appertain thereto? If the answer to that *metaphysical* question is "at conception", then the Non-Aggression Principle of Libertarianism would stipulate that abortion is aggression against the unborn. Therefore, libertarians are not agreed on the subject of abortion, because not all libertarians have the same metaphysical perspective on when life begins.
Furthermore, Ron Paul's intent was not to say that sex is immoral. Santorum and his ilk decry "immorality" (which is how they refer to people having children out of wedlock, etc) and think think the immorality can be solved through government, and banning this or that pill. Ron Paul's answer was simply that this "problem" of unwed teen mothers, etc, won't be solved by government bans, but rather needs to be addressed through civil society.
Very well put! If only there was such an understanding of Libertarianism among the populace at large... Every time I hear Paul referred to as an Isolationist I want to scream.
"Now the abortion question turns on a metaphysical question: when does human life begin, and the rights which appertain thereto?"
Trying to use big words doesn't seem to work for you. The abortion question is NOT about when life begins. No one has any doubts whether a fertilized egg is alive or not. The controversy is over whether or not a fertilized egg is a US citizen and should be given the full protection of the constitution as a legal person.
"Ron Paul's intent was not to say that sex is immoral."
Actually that's exactly what he said. He did NOT use the word "problem", he said it was immoral. The idea that sex between two consenting adults or having children out of wedlock is immoral is an anti-libertarian view.
Which is why Ron Paul is a fake libertarian.
if yr really that stupid, i apologize in advance, otherwise, yr intentionally skewing what he said. Dr. Paul is against abortion. the morning after pill is a different kind of abortion. abortion is legalized murder on the grounds that the mother doesn't want the responsibility of raising a child. clear it up any?
Some guy said: "if yr really that stupid"
When calling other people stupid it helps if you are yourself capable of forming coherent sentences in English.
"Dr. Paul is against abortion. the morning after pill is a different kind of abortion."
No it isn't. Plan B is not an abortifacient because a fertilized egg is not a human being. That is not merely my opinion. It is a scientific medical fact.
"abortion is legalized murder on the grounds that the mother doesn't want the responsibility of raising a child."
In the third grade we were all taught to capitalize the first letter in a sentence. Perhaps you should re-take elementary school and learn how to speak and write English before calling people stupid. No, abortion is not legalized murder because an ovum is not a person any more than an egg is a chicken.
"clear it up any?"
No honey, you have not cleared it up. What you have made clear though is the sad state of education in your area.
Theoncommingstorm:
Great retort!
I'm afraid you are missing the point.
Paul believes drug use is immoral but should not be made illegal.
He believes promiscuous sex is immoral and leads to the need for condoms, but neither should be made illegal.
Unfortunately private and non-federal state-mandated segregation also is permitted by under this reasoning.
Abortion is not because he considers it a taking of a life.
I disagree but it is consistent and certainly not fake.
It is certainly not difficult to understand.
You are usually much sharper than this.
If Ron Paul had any real medical knowledge, he would know that problematic drug abuse is a medical issue, addiction, and he wouldn't engage in blanket, simplistic thinking on such subjects.
But of course blanket simplistic stuff is all a lot of his followers understand.
Why don't you put the comment in the actual context of what it was? He was referring to Santorum calling it immoral for young kids having sex... kids having kids. So he was saying if you want to call it immorality being caused by the pill, then that's wrong. The immorality would be kids having sex thus giving them a reason to use the pill. Not once did he ever say he's against people having sex who aren't married. The question of morality and birth control ONLY came into the conversation regarding kids having sex from Santorum.
And libertarian? He doesn't claim to be libertarian. He just has libertarian leaning views on some things. You need to learn how to be a real journalist, not some opportunistic vulture who tries to take any comment and turn it into whatever you want people to believe it to mean. This isn't the first time I've heard you do it and I konw it won't be the last. You are one of the main reasons I barely tune into MSNBC anymore.
Lawrence, you usually conduct your show with a lot more professionalism than I saw in this video! Your entire body language and facial expressions changed when you talked about Ron Paul. You look like a person that is responding emotionally and very personally. It compromises your integrity. You are better than that.
Watching that video ... seeing your face and eyes... I was frankly disturbed by what shined through tonight. Any point you tried to make was overshadowed by it. Remember -- it's not what you say, but how you say it that people hear. And tonight, all I heard was that Lawrence really can't stand Ron Paul.
Unbelievable! Ron Paul was just trying to, exactly as Lawrence said, school the people around him, basically saying the pill is not bad by itself. Finally Paul said that Santorum's abstinence federal fund use is stupid and it isn't the government's role to be in people's private business... *Paul shook his head in disagreement with Santorum on the issue btw*
Lawrence, please consider a re-write of tonight's rewrite. It was misleading and convenient reporting (don't do what Fox does... poltifact does better than that... do not stoop that low man. You follow Rachel's show, and I'd like to get rid of the feeling of immediately jumping to the remote to change the channel after her show. btw You can take a point or two from corrections she makes on her show)
Many libertarians are pro-life. The libertarian view is that laws should be imposed to prevent one person from intentionally harming another. Those libertarians who view a fetus as a living person favour laws outlawing abortion.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of government, not a moral code; libertarians have wildly different views of morality but agree that government ought to permit people to be free to follow their own beliefs. This is distinct from the totalitarian left, which demands ideological purity.
"Those libertarians who view a fetus as a living person favour laws outlawing abortion."
Abortions in the first few days or the first trimester do not abort a fetus. They abort a fertilized egg. An egg is not a US citizen and should not be afforded full citizenship status and protection.
"Libertarianism is a philosophy of government, not a moral code"
Libertarianism is a moral philosophy that has implications for government. It BEGINS with the moral assumption that the rights of the individual are absolute and can never be infringed upon by the state. Ron Paul is a fake libertarian because he favors the government imposition of laws that restrict the freedom of people to choose abortion or birth control or to marry the person they love.
"This is distinct from the totalitarian left, which demands ideological purity."
This is only true if you think you have the right to impose your beliefs on others. So yes, we liberals do demand that you not try to dictate your morality on other people. You think that is an intolerable interference on your liberties. It is not.
There is no "left" in America but there are some liberals still. We believe in individual freedom and liberty. The word "liberal" originally comes from John Locke's philosophy and is pretty strongly libertarian in it's concepts.
Liberals don't want to impose their beliefs and/or morality on others? OK...maybe not every single one of them, but I've never met nor seen a liberal who didn't want to do just that.
Darren Kerr said:
"Liberals don't want to impose their beliefs and/or morality on others?"
Well I guess you caught me. Yes, we liberals want to impose our horrible morals on others. We want to impose our racial tolerance on racists, religious tolerance on religious bigots, sexual freedom on puritans, freedom for gays on homophobes and sexual equality on anti-women chauvinists. Yup, We are JUST LIKE HITLER!
I am a 1st time GenX voter. I'd just like to thank O'Donnell again for his piece on Paul. It's uninformed, spiteful, paid for by the "machine" commentary like that that continues to persuede more and more viewers away from the MSM to places where they can get some unsponsored news. Keep up the great work! How do you look at yourself im the mirror and try to pawn this crap off as news?? Oh yea, I forgot. Your make-up (special effects) artist's do it for you! Get some dignity!!!
Ron Paul is just a racist version of Rick Sanatorium. Keep both these right wing bozos out of my sex life!
well, at least yr honest about yr blatant stupidity.
Larry tot it wrong again. He suggested that Libertarians are all libertines or they are fake. What a knucklehead. I'm so pissed, I'm gonna vote for anybody but that moderate Republican negro currently in the oval office. I see your fraud, Larry, and I raise you one.
1st, learn how to spell. 2nd, it's Santorum, unless you think he's crazy and trying to spell Sanitarium. If you really want to insult him use Sanscrotum. 3rd, your title implies that you don't have trouble keeping anyone out of your sex life. 4th, quit repeating everything you hear about the candidates from your husband and look into what people are actually saying about them for youself. Lastly, if you really think there is such a thing as left or right wing, then you seriously should get some more information and put the remote down.
You raise an interesting point, Lawrence. If it is true that the truth hurts, judging by the hornets nest you have churned up it looks like you are right.
Yea, because giving edited soundbites makes it the truth. More great reasoning from the brainwashed MSM followers.
Alex Wagner and Chris Hayes are always brilliant in discussion. Great show.
Larry, I just don't have words for how ignorant you sound. "Fake" can absolutely never be used to describe Ron Paul. He is the most honest and refreshing candidate in this election by an enormous margin. Sorry Larry, Ron Paul has morals. The fact that he stands against what he believes to be wrong and sinful is not a reason to lambast him like you just did so inadequately. The government has commandeered our country from us and is now running rampant policing the globe, starting wars, branding patriotism as terrorism, and robbing us of our own constitutional liberties. Ron Paul is exposing the government for how corrupt it is and how unquestionably out of control our government is. Larry, you are a total moron if you believe what I just heard come out of your mouth. Ron Paul is genuine I assure you. You my friend should be kicked right in the balls for being allowed to spew such inaccurate senseless hate speech. MSNBC forced Pat Buchanon to resign and now they've got idiots like you running the show and contorting the truth until no one can see through the facade of lies and deceit that you and your constituents have created. Ron Paul is a better man than you could ever hope to be. Now take your Tbagging like a man because you deserve it.
"The fact that he stands against what he believes to be wrong and sinful is not a reason to lambast him like you just did so inadequately."
That would be true if that's what Lawrence did. He lambasted in Paul NOT for standing against what he believes to be wrong but for (1) never opposing the GOP party's belief that the government has the right to deny a woman's right to freely choose safe abortions and proper medical care. And (2) for being "every bit as anti-sex as sex hater Rick Santorum" which is also inconsistent with libertarian views on sexuality that rightly say it is no one's business, certainly not the government's business, to interfere with the free sexual expression between two people.
Why does Ron Paul never say anything in opposition to the GOP's anti-libertarian policies on abortion?
How is it at all consistent with libertarian philosophy to be opposed to the expression of love or sexual intimacy between two loving individuals?
"The government has commandeered our country from us and is now running rampant policing the globe, starting wars,"
You mean the GOP? You know, the people who started two wars costing trillions and failed to pay for them?
"...branding patriotism as terrorism, and robbing us of our own constitutional liberties."
True patriots don't walk into a police station and open fire, or call the police and open fire when they arrive, or make a truck bomb and blow up the local federal building murdering 168 innocent men women and children. Terrorists do those things.
"You my friend should be kicked right in the balls for being allowed to spew such inaccurate senseless hate speech."
True libertarians do not use the threat of violence in order to try to silence their opponents even when they lose an argument. Right wing authoritarians do that.
"MSNBC forced Pat Buchanon to resign"
True libertarians are opposed to racism and find it abhorrent. True libertarians feel that MSNBC can hire or fire anyone they want for almost any reason. Why do you hate libertarianism?
"Now take your Tbagging like a man because you deserve it."
While we are gay friendly here and homosexuals like yourself are welcome here we would really prefer that you not use your sexuality to bully of intimidate others into silence.
why doesn't Dr. Paul support abortion? BECAUSE HES NOT AN IMMORAL IDIOT INTENTIONALLY SKEWING "A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE" W/ "LEGALIZED MURDER OUT OF AN INCONVENIENCE". the woman CHOOSING to lie down and have sex is the CHOICE. what happens after, as every idiot knows, is that a child will be born IF THERE ARE NO PRECAUTIONS TAKEN. what idiots like you intentionally distort, is that there is a choice at all. murder is illegal. unless yr an unwanted pregnancy. OnComingIgnorantStorm, you need to grow up or get some morals. or at least what passes for morals from the Godless ignorant left.
Someone who failed third grade English said:
"the woman CHOOSING to lie down and have sex is the CHOICE"
I'm pretty sure that there are two people involved during sex (mostly). Women have a right to control their body. The state does not have a right to interfere except in the case of protecting a US citizen. Abortion is not murder because a fertilized egg is not a US citizen.
"unless yr an unwanted pregnancy."
According to your definition even aborting an unwanted pregnancy is murder. That is why Rick Santorum wants the government to force women who have been raped to bear the child. If you were logically consistent the GOP would advocate the death penalty for women who have abortions.
"you need to grow up or get some morals"
When you are capable of forming proper English sentences maybe then you can lecture me about morality.
What in the world does sentences have to do with morality? People who use another person's grammar as a defense have no other. And the rest of your post is also ridiculous. Why even argue over abortion? That's just what they want us to be doing.
Darren Karr said:
"What in the world does sentences have to do with morality?"
Nothing, it's just that if someone cannot form a coherent sentence then I have no duty to take them seriously.
"Why even argue over abortion?"
Because if we don't the GOP will take away ALL our reproductive rights. They are doing that right now. If we don't fight back hard we will lose everything.
Great piece with Jonathan Capehart