Vote: Was the war in Iraq worth it?
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Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:09 PM EDT
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This war turned every orphaned Iraqi child into a suicide bomber.
That is why there is a separation between church and state clause in the constitution.
I'm not seeing your correlation between these two statements and I don't believe every orphaned Iraqi child will become Osama bin Laden. I think there are many who are grateful that we removed Hussein from power and I'm sure there are many who think we should have left long ago. If only Bush & Cheney hadn't lied...
If we had been lucky enough to have President Obama with his cool ways we would never have gone to this worthless war in the first place... He has shone that he is a great leader . These republicans that block everything he does are bad for our country!!!!!!!! We need to get rid of every one of them that voted against the jobs bill......
One things for sure- If Obama had been President, Iraq wouldn't have had to go through the trial to convict and condemn Saddam. Would have been 3 hits. Two bullets at Saddam, then Saddam hitting the floor. Or one missle.
Unlikely.
rusty,
do you even know the history between iraq and the united states?
W. bush FAILED (because he was lying) to connect the attacks on 9/11 to saddam hussein. he took advantage of an america who was hurt, angry and revengeful (we had a right to feel that way) to push the iraqi war. most people in the country believed what he was telling us.
we know that saddam has used chemical weapons on the kurds and iranians, but saddam had not given them to al qaeda, or hamas, or islamic jihad, or hezbollah in lebanon to use against the israelis, nor has he ever attacked the United States directly, or threatened to do so (he did threaten to kill W. bush's daddy, however). he was a horrible man and dictator and deserved to be tried for the crimes he has commited, perhaps responsible for the death's of millions. but it was wrong of W. and cheney and rumsfeld and others (collin powell) to link 9/11 with saddam hussein and take his eye off bin laden.
the war in iraq was based on oil, and a personal vendetta by W. bush because saddam threatened his daddy. this illegal war has caused the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, and thousands of american troops.
you-"if Obama had been president, iraq wouldn't have had to go through the trial to convict and condemn saddam". how about the thousands of innocent lives and our troops that died for an illegal war based on a lie?
Suzette- perhaps you confuse me with someone who doesn't support the Obama Doctrine. I fully support Obama's strategy of going in and surgically removing cancers.
The ironic thing is that Republicans don't support this, and also that Democrats do. I mean, Democrats threw a hissy fit about enhanced interrogations on 3 people. Democrats threw a fit about not giving proper due process to those accused, suspected and known to have caused us harm. Logic would seemingly dictate Republicans would be the ones orchestrating these hits and Democrats condemning them loudly. But, in politics, there is an abundance of hypocrisy on both sides, and this is yet another example of it. BTW- rethink your example. Just last week, Obama sent American troops into a country in Africa- one that hasn't attacked us. Once more, if we can contain this activity to the 100 or so Special Forces and they go in and eliminate the head of the problem and get out, I'm fine with it. Normally, though, Democrats would throw a fit about it.
rusty,
i should "rethink my example"? why?
President Obama isn't lying to the american people to make a case for "war" or for "eliminating the head".
when W. bush took out saddam hussein, he also took out hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqi lives, and over 4,000 young american troops. i am not sure what our drone capability was in 2003, but putting that aside, when we knew that bin laden was behind the attack on 9/11, that was the reason we went to war in the first place in afghanistan. W. bush told many lies to justify the war in iraq, one of them being WMD. another lie he told was that al qaeda was in iraq. we know this is not true, either. al qaeda did not come to iraq until after the invasion in march of 2003 by america.
i hope you see the difference.
yeah, there is hypocrisy on both sides. but i think the way that W. bush left our economy, the huge deficit, is part of the reason both democrats and republicans have shifted their ideas about war. also, i see the republicans as anti-Obama.
and it will be more-so now that President Obama has more than proven himself in matters of defense and foreign policy. the republicans feel they have to disagree with him to save face, because they think that their party is strong on defense. they want the american people to still think they are the best at foreign policy.
deep down, they must feel shock and awe over what President Obama has done in regard to defense.
I didn't approve of this war from day one. I cried watching "shock and Awe". I have always supported our troops but never approved of this illegitimate war.
We are where we are and that is our starting point.
Erma Bombeck used to say, "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade."
We cannot undo anything by bitching and throwing blame.
Sadam is dead, that's a good thing for the world.
Obama's speech in Cairo, Egypt gave the people of the middle east, HOPE!
Now, Time to bitch and complain is over. The time to build a strong democratic society throughout the Middle East is the mission of the people and not armies.
We assisted Libya but the boots on the ground is the Libyan people.
This is how one fights wars in the future. Assist the people to fight for their own freedom. They will appreciate what they fought for because when a nation spills it's own blood for a purpose (FREEDOM), That purpose will succeed.
Never approved of that war. Following the story there was no doubt the entire farce was based upon lies from the get go. And NOBODY almost ever mentions the Iraqi civilian casualties. Very shameful episode indeed.
Why haven't the people responsible for lying us into this war being held to account?
money makes the world go round
Act 1
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This war was not what The United States is all about, it was down right criminal and a real insult to our brave military to have made them fight it and a real tragedy for the lives that were lost.
The taxpayers have been played by the politicians that they elected. The Republican Party has compromised our society, they bring their compromised interests into government.
Oil companies wanted to do business in countries that did not like them, so they bought some Republicans and they used our taxes to stand up puppet governments. The quagmire Vice President, Cheney saw profits for his company Haliburton if he could get them no bid contracts to a brand new war.
These sociopathic businesses have leveraged, infected all branches of our government with Republican puppets. Democrats are not far behind because they did like all other authorities, looked the other way but at least they do think and because of that there is little unity to face the Republicans who do not think, who just follow the smell of money.
There should be separation of Church, Business and Government.....
If not for business, this nation wouldn't have ever existed. The colonies were funded by the Virginia Company, lock, stock and barrel and if not for that corporation the pilgrims would have been trying to swim to their New World.
The war in Iraq was won by Halliburton. When the US Military needed a base, Halliburton built them one. When the US Miltitary needed a vehicle, General Motors built them one. When the US Military needed an airplane, McDonnell-Douglas was there.
Armies run on beans and bullets. Campbell's Soup and Colt Arms are how you win a war. Nations without businesses tend to lose wars... badly. US troops were in Baghdad inside of a week because Iraq's armed forces had neither beans nor bullets.
Iraq had the home turf advantage and didn't last a week against the USA for one reason and one reason alone... FREE ENTERPRISE gave us the resources to smash them like a bug.
Ever notice who(ever) sacrifices the most in the US [1973-] appears to gain the least? After Viet Nam, the "volunteer" system was put into place. Sacrifices by the soldiers drafted weren't saluted until recently; agent orange and other mental and physical problems absorbed by these HEROES went unattended for decades. Why would so many of the politicians begrudge a volunteer force the same treatment as Viet Nam Vets? After all, many enlisted for economic reasons; to help their families. Course Viet Nam was different; I didn't hear about anyone phoning home for body armor or complaining of inadequate or faulty equipment, soldiers being electrocuted in showers or inadequate food supplies, "religious" bullets, etc. I'd say the Viet Nam Vets may be the future for Afghanistan/Iraq Vets. Their needs go unfulfilled when our whims are done.
It's not even a great debate about the whole thing. It was an outright abuse of power by President Bushs' stolen elections! What they did: Republican government lying so as to go to war/so as to get even for what Hussein supposedly did to President Bushs' father/for taking control of Iraqi oil/to improve U.S. economy/show Machismo and scare the world into submission/economic gain for those in government/to prove that we are the world police/to control that part of the world/to increase our military spending and size etc. Results:Loss of our economic health/many dead Americans/billions blown away to war/U.S. now viewed as hypocrites/Geneva Convention rules thrown to the wind by America/U.S. viewed as abuser of prisoners of war/still in war ten years later/New Democratic President can't spend money due to economic condition of country and Republican control of House/increased terrorist threat to our country etc. How is it possible that knowing this the country could still vote in Republicans? Prejudice/dumb/tradition/anarchist/Devil? QUICO!
The life of Steven Green was ruined. Iraq turned this unfortunate young man into a murderer.
USA War Inc.
It was all about the money, the profit for our war industry.
Our kids in uniform were the cheap labor.
What a waste.
cosmo,
dick cheney still not afraid to show his face after the many scandals of haliburton, and defend the atrocities of the iraqi war, and take credit for the killing of bin laden.
our kids were just collateral damage in a war based on a lie.
the war was a big lie and for that reason alone the bush admin.should be ashamed if only they knew what that actually means but that is reaching to high.he cost this country lives that cannot be replaced and that should have gotten him put in prison.he also cost this country billions of dollars whitch this country could have used to rebuild instead of closeing schools .and loseing millions of american jobs that in my opinion makes him the worst president ever in our great country.
The Tea Party Republicans only want to prolong the war for their own profit..
The Department of Defense paid former Halliburton subsidiary KBR more than $80 million in bonuses for contracts to install electrical wiring in Iraq. The award payments were for the very work that resulted in the electrocution deaths of US soldiers, according to Department of Defense documents revealed today in a Senate hearing. More than $30 million in bonuses were paid months after the death of Sgt. Ryan Maseth, a highly decorated, 24-year-old Green Beret, who was electrocuted while taking a shower at a US base in January 2008. His death, the result of improper grounding for a water pump, has been classified by the US Army Criminal Investigations Division (CID) as a "negligent homicide." Maseth's death had originally been labeled an accident. Bonuses were paid to KBR in 2007 and 2008, after CID investigators had officially expressed concerns about the quality of KBR's electrical work. For its part, KBR denies any culpability for the electrocution deaths.
This information was revealed at a hearing of the Senate Democratic Policy Committee. According to the committee's chair, Sen. Byron Dorgan, the rewards KBR received under its LOGCAP contracts were supposed to be for work of the "highest quality" with "no deficiencies" or problems. Dorgan said KBR's work was "shoddy" and "unprofessional." Some eighteen US soldiers have died since 2003 as a result of KBR's "shoddy work," according to Sen. Frank Lautenberg. KBR/Halliburton, of which Dick Cheney was chairman and CEO from 1995 to 2000, has been the single largest corporate beneficiary of the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It continues to operate globally on US government contracts.
Charles Smith, the former Army official who managed the contracts under which KBR performed electrical work in Iraq, testified that it was "highly inappropriate" that KBR received these bonuses for what he called "dangerously substandard" work. He said that the Army was well aware of KBR's "poor performance" since the beginning of the Iraq invasion, and yet continued to reward KBR because the military was "afraid" KBR would cease work. He said there was "a culture that decided KBR was too big to fail and too important to be held to account." The "perverse incentive is that there was no incentive" for KBR to do quality work because they received bonuses for poor work.
From what I recall: Bush W wanted war with Iraq from the very beginning because. 1) They tried to kill his father. 2) To finish what his father began. 3) To make his father proud of him. 4) His staff informed W. that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney wanted in because he figured the oil in Iraq would benefit Halliburton.
And what ever did happen with all those billion$ that went missing, meant to rebuild Iraq? Oddball09 I am still curious about that.
The persons who have control of that money live in Texas and Wyoming
You are wrong about Cheney. It wasn't oil Cheney was interested in, it was cost plus contracts for halliburton that Cheney was after, and he got them. Not only was that worth billions of dollars, but it also was done with no competitive bidding, and no oversight as to whether the work was actually even performed!
Cheney belongs in prison, and if there was any justice in this world, he will be there some day,
This wrongful War in Iraq was not worth the sacrifices that it create.
Which war would be worth the sacrifice?
War is the last tool left for social Darwinism
Aloha MM: You got that right!! That and a way to "decrease the surplus population."
It is always the poor in the front lines, and the rich who went to West Point in back.
Now maybe some of the BILLIONS used for a war the United States did not have any business in can be used for a jobs bill. That should satisfy the do nothing Congress. But wait the do nothing Congress is saying the US should not leave a country that does not want us there. What will it take for these people to understand we are not wanted? The United States has it's own problems so let Iraq solve theirs. What's the old saying "TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN BACKYARD AND LEAVE OTHERS ALONG"?
If we had been lucky enough to have President Obama....
What??? over 9% unemployment 1 in 7 on food stamps..... under his rule..
CRT,
yes, it is true that the President takes the credit for the good and the blame for the bad.
it is beyond me how you all forget about the condition of the country when President Obama took office. have you forgotten about 2 wars NOT PAID FOR, ONE OF THEM ILLEGAL? have you forgotten about medicare part D-NOT PAID FOR? have you forgotten about W. bush's blank check that DECIMATED america?
you all love to blame President Obama, when the american people blame W. bush. the american people also blame the republican party/baggers for the gridlock in washington. democrats have a 62% disapproval rating. republicans have a 77% disapproval rating. the baggers have an 84% disapproval rating. i find it very sad that the republican party is so intent on destroying this President, that they are clearly ignoring what the american people are asking for.
they know that we can see right through them, but moving this country forward does not jive with their plan to make Barack Obama a one term president.
they are unembarassable, refusing to vote for things that they have supported in the past (example-individual mandate, a republican idea).
President Obama is NOT the only one in washington who is expected to move the country forward. i would hope that the republican party would work with the President, but their agenda is already set, and it does not include the american people. it only includes taking the white house.
i am ashamed of the republican party.
And what about the party that got us there and has done everything in their power to keep it there?
Are you referring to the Democrats?
If you want Republican ideas enacted, then vote Democrat! (heath care, jobs act)
Cain's for president is brilliant:
9-9-0-9 plan is brilliant:
No more tax excemptions for churches,
9% for each buy and sell of stocks plus 9% income tax on profits = 27% instead of 15% currently.
Cain is right: If you are poor, it is your own fault! 2nd Amendment remedies only for the T party?
Are you volunteering for first on 2nd Amendment remedies or do you think it is only for the person standing next to you? Poorness shall never befall upon you, right?
Aloha MM: I thought at first you were being sarcastic or ironic. Do you really mean war is a good thing? Wait "No more tax exemptions for churches"? I still can't figure you out. You are just being ironic aren't you? Aren't you????? I use irony and sarcasm all the time, yet I can't always tell if someone else is.
Oh I have stated this again and again (I am center left). I am a fan of Keith Oberman, Ed, Lawrence, Rachel, Bashir, Mahr. etc. and so on. I am also a card carrying member of the NRA (IRONY). I like pinking, it's fun, just the same the 2nd amendment goes both ways.
Also in case you do mean what you are saying (still unsure), I agree with Cain that it is the fault of the poor for being poor (for some at least). I have to admit being a white suburbanite, most of us didn't start raising family's until after college, and starting some career, and financial stability. And we usually only have 2 to 3 kids. Poor (welfare mothers) who have up to 5 or more usually out off wedlock and with multiple husbands or partners,.... well it is a no brain-er why there's poverty there. But many people fall on hard times, weather it is health problems, bad economy, or just plain bad luck. As Sandy says this can happen to you or any of us.
Also for anyone who wants to take the welfare mom's comments as racist, I know there will be, what is, is. A much greater percent of blacks and latinos are in the habit of having too many kids they cannot afford, than us Euro Americans. And the excuses "children are a blessing of God" give me a @!$%#ing break.
I remember exactly where I was when Bush announced that we were going to 'shock and awe' the Iraqi people. My stomach turned at the OBVIOUS lies that were circulated - and why we were impotent in the face of these lies was a great disappointment to me.
Now, we hear more lies. But, this time it's about our money, my money, and my stomach turns at my inability to defend myself in the face of OBVIOUS larceny that has infiltrated what we trusted was a fair and just system.
I am a close follower of Lawrence, Rachel, Keith, and Cenk among many, such as Amy Goodman, Jay Tomlinson, David Pakman, Jimmy Dore, Thom Hartman, Dan Carlin, Jim Hightower, Bill Maher, Sam Seder, Robert Kennedy Jr, and plenty more.
Our impotence in stopping the giant snowball of crime is disheartening when we have such clear and brilliant voices telling us the truth - or at least - the facts.
I'm a fan Lawrence and would be happy to tell you that face to face.