MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell talks to The Nation's Ari Melber and MSNBC political analyst Jonathan Alter on the politics of the debt ceiling deal, and why people are comparing it to "Satan sandwiches."
Winners and losers of debt deal
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Mon Aug 1, 2011 10:43 PM EDT
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Thanks Barry! Thanks for nothing! You continue down the path of conservative economic policies and our nations economy is flat lined. You did not learn during the lame duck session, you did not learn during the budget showdown, and once again you were schooled by the GOP in adopting their policies that have proven to be failures. Need Proof? Q1 growth 0.4% revised figure....How about those extended tax cuts? How much growth have we seen?
I can't believe how many people completely missed whats happened here. I find it especially odd that Lawrence O'Donnell himself missed it. But here it is:
Obama tried like hell to squash the Bush tax cuts for the top 10% of the income scale back in November, at the same time as he was trying to get unemployment benefits extended through the holidays. After republicans swept the elections in 2010, the choice was clear: agree to let the tax cuts ride another 2 years, in exchange for the unemployment extension.
In January 2011, Boehner made it VERY clear that the debt ceiling was going to be a major issue, largely on the part of Tea Party republicans. You can call it a mistake by Boehner to tip his hand that it was coming so early, OR, you can call it a "warning" to Obama that a fight was coming. Either way, Obama had the sufficient warning he needed to act. And he did. When we hit the debt ceiling in May, things got heated as the Tea Party took center stage by framing the entire thing around "cutting spending". That's when Obama started bringing the fragile economy to the forefront of everyone's attention, and educating the public to what the debt ceiling actually was.
Look at the news today. In fact, look ANYWHERE even in social media. EVERYONE is blaming the Tea Party for this whole fiasco, which is what Obama was aiming for the whole time. He's effectively turned the republican party inward against itself. Tea Partyers everywhere are already threatening to primary every republican who voted for this bill. While its true that Obama has taken a LOT of heat from democrats, that will fade quickly as he begins putting pressure on republicans to start producing the job creating legislation they ran on in 2010, or at least start approving the legislation democrats already have being held up by republicans in the house, waiting to be decided. The main focus now is JOBS.
This "deal", at face value looks very ominous, because most people believe that cuts to "the big three" will include things on the "beneficiary side". Which isn't the case at all. Any cuts, should this "super committee" fail to come to an agreement, will be on the "provider side". And that simply WILL NOT be allowed to happen, because the republicans KNOW that it will seal their already fractured state, which will become very apparent in upcoming elections. In fact, reading the language of the legislation it clearly states that benefit cuts are OFF the table should the "trigger" be pulled from either side.
Republicans LOVE their defense budget. And if they pull the trigger, there will be sweeping cuts to the tune of over half a trillion, starting with the pentagon. While democrats will lose a half a trillion to the provider side of medicare. Defense? Democrats lose nothing. Medicare? Republicans will feel the public wrath as equally as democrats.
This deal, at face value looks lousy for everyone. But in reality, its a nightmare for the republicans on a much grander scale, because the true Tea Party republicans could care less about the defense budget. They just want to shrink government by cutting everything they can, as much as they can. And they've already shown the extremes they're willing to go to, just to get their way. The economy? Blow it up! Defense? Who cares? BOOM!
Boehner is going to have his hands full with that bunch. LOL
Excellent post, AlanO. And so true.....right on!
You know what MOST people will never understand until Mr. Matthews and I tell them? What is that mowdy5000 you may ask? I shall tell you. By holding hostage our nations economy and EXTORTING our president tea bagging republicans have proven it CAN be done. How is that important mowdy5000 you may ask? I will brighten the room. With the overturning of the 63 year old campaigning finance law it allows corporations and incorporated companies to poor cash into the process. [Led by republican tea bagger Alito I might add.]
Buying favors beholding candidates unto them and NOT having to tell where it all came from. Anyone REMEMBER what just happened with the guy from Pakistan and his contributions? This is why I always say theses pledges tea baggers and republicans make to Norquist and other private groups and citizens they hold in higher esteem then the oaths of office are illegal and tea bagging republicans should be brought up on charges.
Because what that then does is make way for FOREIGN governments to pose as corporations and buy there way in to congress. Quite like Ol' Rupert Murdoch had done. Check it out. LAWS HAVE been broken and tea bagging republicans should all be brought up on conspiracy and treason charges, Because NOW foreign government KNOW that you can do and how to extort our nations sitting presidents.. Plural.
How to wreck our countries economy. Think it wont happen? It just did.. Wake up people. Wake up. This is a dangerous time and a dangerous persident set and the fact it is able to be done should send SHIVERS up the back of Americans spine. I'm not kidding
I'm not joking and its dead serious. This is how the group that doesn't exist always buys there way into public office..
Think about it people. Think about it. ;]
Cheers
Do we know if our congressmen were paid overtime this past weekend - just prior to taking off for the next 5 weeks?!
Seeing the FAA is not funded I say they should not be able to use any airports or trains to get back to their districts!
When a person or group acts like a Bully and gets away with it, usually means that person or group will continue to bully it's way until something or someone stops them. what we have in congress is a bulling situation. Now that they know, they can get their way, they won't stop until something Bad happens. I hope it want come some type of civil unrest.
And now we can get on with the business of creating jobs.Isnt that what Obama said after he caved on the Bush tax cuts.And now he said it again.To my way of thinking he is nothing but a republican stooge.And just how does he go about creating jobs?Another stimilus package?No.Payroll tax cut?Repubs wont let him do that either,even though they love tax cuts.The repubs will want to give corporations more tax breaks,you know those "job creators".and he'll cave again.He is a defeated President and should let Biden handle his duties until they can find someone to run against him.Because at this time,I can see no way Ican vote for him.
Just to refresh your memory, the President did not 'cave' to the bush tax cuts. The reichwingnuts said 'NO" as usual when unemployment benefits where to be extended ( at christmas time) for the unemployed unless he extended the cuts for two years. Go ahead, just because you don't know the facts you'll stay home and let a T-Bagger get into office. That plan worked sooo well in 2010. Now look where we are.
john, i agree. the president isn't the only one with power in washington. even with the democrats so called "super majority" in 2009-2010, the blue dog democrats make it impossible for a "super majority".
joca, i am still willing to give him benefit of doubt, because we don't know all the facts. john is right when he says that President Obama was thinking of the unemployed when he made the deal to extend the bush tax cuts.
i'm not happy either, with everything the president has compromised to get something done. but i don't expect to agree with or like everything the president does.
so we have bloggers (cindy, disenchanted liberal) here saying the same things you are; that you will sit out the 2012 election. i have heard campaign ads on fox news that are very similar to what cindy (disenchanted liberal) has written here. how they really like the president but he is just not doing a good job.
maybe you, joca, are a republican stooge.
JOHN IN TEXAS,the fact was the house and senate were both controlled by dems.Yes I remember the fillibuster.But a Prez should know how to twist arms and get the votes.Another thing you should notice is Isaid (at this time) Icant vote for him.Mark my word the repubs will go after the health care plan next.I'll see how he reacts before I commit to voting for him
Sitting out the election is giving the country over to these wingnuts. If you don't like what you are seeing, GET OUT THERE AND VOTE! The master plan, going back to when Reagan was elected, is to get the democratic base so disillusioned they do not turn out to vote. That is the only way the republicans can win. There are way more registered democrats than republicans. Not voting gives the country over to those who want to rape it. The only equalizer is your vote. If you choose to not use it you might as well turn around and bend over.
One of them freshmen republican congressmen (Huizenga) has an office 2 blocks form my property. You better believe he got an ear full from me. I didn't mean to bully him so bad that they had a cop park in front of my downtown business/appartment that whole afternoon. Hey sometimes the squeeky wheel gets the grease.
Why doesn't President Obama tell the American How many jobs will be lost due to spending cuts! I don't think the American people realize the connection between cutting government spending and the direct resulting jobs lost.
Yes republicans say government jobs aren't real (what a joke) the facts are Wall-street finds these jobs real enough! When the unemployment rate goes up wall -street isn't saying ohhh-well they were just government jobs..... They say Ohhh there are less consumers, witch means less sales, of coarse leading to less profit!
Why isn't the Obama administration telling the American people this regularly. Every job lost due to cuts, make sure the republican party owns any further damage to our economy!
Thanks for spreading the truth Mr. O'Donnell we need it badly!
I was happy to see Rep. Giffords on the House floor. I was unhappy to hear from Luke Russert that this represented a moment free of the cynicism that has overtaken Washington.
There could be nothing more cynical than the Democratic band aid that she was there to apply. Give me a break.
The biggest losers: the American people. Apparently, they lost their senses when they elected this crowd.
This year the deficit exceeded discretionary spending. You could zero out discretionary spending and you still couldn't balance the budget without raising revenue. And yet, you can't levy another dime, because someone will squawk that their taxes might go up.
Lawrence, please devote your shows for the next two years to job creation. Maybe if someone in the media harps on it, eventually it will get the attention it deserves. Debates about the debt ceiling are distractions, and I get the distinct feeling they are intended to distract us from something important. Now what was it...? Oh, yeah. I need to be able to pay my bills!
Fairly much took the words from my mouth.
Are Harry Reid and the President now ready to admit that they made a mistake last fall when they let the Republicans get away with extending the Bush tax cuts? This debate would have never come up if they had stuck to their guns on that issue. It was a colossal strategic mistake not to insist that these cuts, at least for the super rich, be let to expire.
All the people screaming about the debt deal haven't actually the slightest clue about the huge milestone it contains--should Congress fail to reach agreement, HALF of the cuts MUST come from the Pentagon.
This is a huge victory for Obama, and I am surprised and disappointed that Mr. O'Donnell does not see it. And in making this deal, Obama has taken away a key GOP talking point about cutting the deficit, all the while protecting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, plus welfare.
And all those comments saying the deal extends the Bush tax cuts? W-R-O-N-G! Those tax cuts will AUTOMATICALLY expire at the end of 2012, as part of the deal done in December.
Get your facts straight, people.
The Republicans are so crooked they have effectively wangled a tax CUT for the rich. The deal is, if tax loopholes are closed, the government must give BACK the extra revenue collected to the rich! The rhetoric is so far removed from the action, you think the lot of them conspired to swindle the public.
The problem is with unlimited anonymous "contributions" you have unlimited corruption.
Lawrence, you are so politically savy perhaps you can explain to me if this strategy would be possible: The next time the Bush tax cuts are due to end instead of Obama fighting to save the middle class tax cuts why can't he just let them expire? Have a bill already drafted and ready to be introduced that would allow for tax cuts for everyone except for the super rich (maybe even make these tax cuts a little bit better than the Bush tax cuts, reasoning since the top 1 or 2 percent are NOW, FINALLY paying their fair share, we can afford to increase it for that part of the population that is truly hurting) and hold the rethugs hostage for a change? Let's watch them try to explain why they oppose any kind of tax cut.
Mitch McConnell is such a phony. He pretends his main goal was spending cuts, but that was not his priority. His priority was protecting loopholes and a tax holiday for the rich. He sacrificed huge spending cuts in the negotiations to preserve loopholes for the rich and massive subsidies for big oil. The cuts he agreed to are mere tokens, just enough to look good to his base.
Politicians are professional liars. Close your eyes and ignore what they say, and pay attention to how they vote.
Actually I feel his true goal has always been to bring down the president at any cost.
There are no winners coming out of the recent debt ceiling debacle, the losers the American people of course. If this is the type of representation we are to expect in the future then we may as well vote each and everyone of them out and begin anew. As my sainted mother would have said "They are all full of malarkey".
I had been reading these blogs throughout this discussion. I just wish I had a buck for evry time I read on MSNBC blogs that Obama was leading the Rs right where he wanted to, that he had a plan and was walking circles around them. He strategic thrust was working perfectly.
I am assuming all of that is true and now we are ready to move on
Listening to Barney Frank talk is a challenge. He talks like he has a mouth full of s@@@. Rambling like he never knows how to put two words together. If this is the best we can do for a US Senator we are in serious trouble.
LOL
well you are in fact deep trouble.
oh Barney Franks is a Rep. from MA not a Senator.
I agree with you, Tom. It seems like he has a speech impediment. I shiver everytime I hear him speaking.
One of the most telling u-tube vids is the one where Barney Frank is ridiculing Rs for suggesting Fannie and Freddie be revamp. He is saying, paraphrased- Freddie and Fannie are in pretty good shape...
Then the crisis hit and he became an even bigger hero of the Left.
We could move to a Europeon country where they have free health, money for college, lower cost of living, all kinds of goodies, this all according to Bill Maher and Larry O, both socialist. If it so good why don't Larry and Bill get their ass over there. I will drive them to the airport. Take Rachel, Mr Ed and Matthews with you.
LOL at you!!
thanks!
1 Fact is Folks even Cons & Tea Baggers love Medicare SS Home mortgage deduction. But Wall ST & huge Corps GET MOST WELFARE OF ALL Bachman lives off the gov't she despises. Bachmans gets medicaid cash from their business and get large farm subsides ! GOP Tea Baggers are phony 2 faced liars . Who are we kidding except ourselves ?
Why did we support BHO. he has sold us out time after time. it's time for hillery clinton.
sells us out to the tea party because he is scared of them, assasinates people around the world, has us in 3 wars we shouldnt be in, tells lie after lie. it's time for a real progressive change and i mean now.
i'm sure you would rather have mitt romney or michele bachmann.
Now that congress (they don't deserve a capital letter) has chosen a "how," we all need to ask "when?" When will the "job creators" actually start creating jobs? How much more do we need to give the "job creators" in order for them to actually start creating jobs?
Also, we owe our heart-felt gratitude to the approaching-retirement-age Tea Party folks; what with them taking one for the team by so willingly giving up some of their Medicare for the good of the nation's economy. Talk about patriotism. Those folks got it in spades!
This Unfair deal was made under great duress, threat of US default to pay our current bills. SO I will not blame Obama for Tea Bagger bag of tricks Thats just what they planned . WE must not be manipulated GOP baggers are excellent at that and using fear as a weapon Just as Bush did in Iraq. Think ahead Lets Outsmart the devious Tea Baggers plot to make Obama fail. Recall GOP Waterloo vow ? Baggers must go asap to save our country from more toxic Tea Bagger ' deals ' That only Enrich huge corps & billionaires who get giant loopholes- tax refunds -subsides while our wages tanked. Corp welfare - Bush cuts MUST END ! Wars must end sooner . SS tax cap gone That saves trillions NOT the Bagger way www.congress.gov www.whitehouse.gov speak out
Our choice : More of GOP Baggers Unfair bills under duress- threat of US default
Bush GOP Bagger con judges Corp tax cuts- loopholes - anti worker -anti women- anti education anti disabled policies- anti SS & Medicare that we paid for with SS taxes or Obama ? EZ Obama
the tea party wins their ransom for holding our country hostage. this win only empowers the tea party to make more and more demands. the spineless democrats caved into their demands. no budget is ever balanced with just cuts. the winners--the tea party, the rich, record profit making corporations, tax breaks for the rich, continued subsidizes for oil companies et al. the losers-- the American people. no jobs. only conintuing bickering. no term limits for these elected NONrepresentatives. there is no end for the endless wars costing billions yearly. our congress is so dysfunctional that we fail to be represented or even have a voice in the process. Obama promised social security/medicare would not be touched--it is now on the table (another broken campaign promise) Nothing will come out of these committees--any input will be dismissed just like the last supercommittee. our country is being sold to corporate greed and their money gods by spineless democrats and radical tea party. we are now a country "of by and for the rich funded by the middle class"
Did they really? Lets examine:
What they won, is a "vote" on a balanced budget amendment, at some point before the committee puts forth it's recommendations for deficit reduction by Thanksgiving.
The House will put it forth, in a separate proposal that NO ONE will agree to, but it won't get the 2/3 it will take to pass it.
They'll huff and puff about blowing up the debt deal to get their way, but that won't happen either. Why? Because true republicans WILL NOT allow the defense budget to be cut by half a trillion, just so the Tea Party can strongarm their amendment out of the House, by holding a deal hostage. A balanced budget amendment bill will be a separate issue from this point forward, because it CANNOT be attached to anything and be fair.
Here's what went down:
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=1193B83C-6B06-4EC6-843F-E564DBB7BA5A
The defense budget is a HUGE issue for your typical republican. Not so much for the Tea party retards. I think this "supercommittee has a MUCH better chance than many may be expecting.
Aside from that, you can't "broker a deal" to amend the constitution, because the constitution expressly forbids it. Its going nowhere. Ever. You can't impress your will onto the constitution. People cry all the time that "the states did it!". Yeah, so? The states rely on government money by a pretty fair margin. And any amendment would dictate that the budget MUST be balanced by whatever means necessary. So bye-bye state budgetary assistance.
You can't attach an ideological agenda to it, because many of the states would shoot it down on that basis alone. Its a dead issue. But to close this debt ceiling deal, Obama gave them their "chance" to at least vote on it, knowing full well its already dead.
So what did they win? Some insignificant cuts of about $22bn this year? Big deal. And even they know it. Its what they're all pissed about LOL
The real fight is still ahead. And here's what it will be: A HUGE majority of the American people vs. Tax reform without any "shared sacrifice".
We'll see who wins.
When our children DO NOT behave in school they have to stay in during Recess and do work. I think that OUR CHILDREN in DC should have to stay in DC and do the work that needs to be done. They did not get their work done they do not get a break. Let them serve us not their re-election goals, this might even help their re-election hopes!
When you hire someone to do a job and they fail, you fire their ass, deselect them, replace them. Thats what we need to do with the people in DC. When you have a leader with no leadership skills, you replace that person with one that has those skills.
When our children DO NOT behave in school they have to stay in during Recess and do work. I think that OUR CHILDREN in DC should have to stay in DC and do the work that needs to be done. They did not get their work done they do not get a break. Let them serve us not their re-election goals, this might even help their re-election hopes!