Last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu feigned outrage over President Obama's suggestion that Israel and Palestine borders should be based on 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps. Then in Netanyahu's congressional address yesterday, he made that same suggestion. MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell has more in the Rewrite.
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Great statement on Israel. THe maneuvering behind the scenes needs to be shown. Bibi is right that the '67 borders are indefensible, but Clearly any border is indefensible. Hence the need for peace as Obama has outlined it.
check,
Netanyahu and the US media threw President Obama under the bus !!!
The strategy is show them one thing and do another. The Palestinians are a lot like the Republican party. If Netanyahu goes along with Obama then the Palestinians and Al Queda will think it is a forced American agenda and not in their best interests. Netanyahu and the President need to take the side of what they dont want and then get them to agree with the one they really want . Psychology 101.
Just watched your show as I do most nights...You neglected to mention that some of Israel's concern is negotiating with people who do not believe they have a right to exist...Some of the blame for the inability to agree might belong to the Palestinians...I do enjoy your show and I know you would want to present a complete picture.
Mr. O'Donnell was at his absolute best dissecting the speeches of the President and the Prime Minister. I was literally standing in ovation. Well done sir, as per usual.
TEN thumbs UP, George !!!! I was standing in ovation, too !!!
you my fellow american are as retarded as both our President and Lawrence..
Yes!! Great Job again. ( raised Jewish American, now neither.)
I have just watched your show as I do most nights..It is important that you speak about the fact that it is impossible for Israel to negotiate with people who do not believe they have a right to exist...I know you would want to present a clear case and to do so you must acknowledge that fact...thanks
BRAVO TO LAWRENCE O===HIS LAST WORD tonight is the best word in ages
to counter the kind of hysteria Netanyahu tried to stir up---he is bent upon a wedge between
Obama and the American people with the pretense and lie so common to the Prime Minister.
His scene in Congress was an outrage---and he seems to have no idea that 60 percent
of Americans accept the President---and we are insulted when our President's offers for a long
awaited peace in the most oppressed misery of the Palestinian people.
I am tired of pro-Israel arrogance, and blindness to a need and right of a state for free people--
and as Lawrence made clear tonight--Koch and for that matter Netanyahu as well can only
follow one course: a free state for Palestinians--or else Israel is destined to be as questionable
an "ally" as Pakistan--and the present upheavel in the mid-EAst is not the setting for cracks
in one ally Israel can ever claim. The 1967 borders are the only borders than could hope
to be "defensible."
James McCormick KC MO 64111
Dude.. Get a @!$%#in clue before you run off your mouth.. You are too ignorant for any more of a response then this...
You are and idiot KCMO 64114
Lawrence O'Donnell mentioned during this this evening's show
that a majority of Israeli's support Obama's positions on how to structure a 'deal'
between Israel and the Palestinians when compared to their Prime Minister's.
Surprising (?) to find in this evening's Haaretz website
(left leaning Israeli newspaper) with a headline of "Haaretz Poll" Netanyahu's
popularity soaring following Washington Trip.
Interesting, huh?
Best to check ones facts and sources before blabbing on a national
TV show.
"The Last Word"
Word Up Brother...
Mea culpa. I certainly misspoke last week - I missed the "swaps". I should have realized Obama would never have proposed an untenable position for Israel. I do wonder if the Palestinians will be happy with a state around the combined size of the occupied territories, although no one has says that's a limit. The problem is that Israel is already so small and crowded and any swap means massive relocation.
It's interesting that the occupied territories aren't Palestinian territory but land that used to belong to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. I still stand by the idea that those most vocal Arab supporters of a Palestinian State (and decriers of Israel) should offer up some land to move the process along. Heck, a great many Palestinians live in those neighboring countries - a lot as permanent refugees - anyway.
Our friends and ally Israel deserve whatever land they both have and can acquire.. I am old school and believe what you can take?? You should have where Barbaritism in the middle east is concerned.. If I were the Prime Minister of Israel?? Having the weapons and America behind me?? I would have alot more land to ad to my country.. It's a dog eat dog world in the middle east.. Instead of fighting to defend what I already have?? I would be fighting to expand.. All want Israel wiped out.. I would take it to them before they take it to me..
A standing ovation for Lawrence O'Donnell. A rousing round of applause for our President. God Bless America, and the sensible supporters of truth, justice and the determination of those who see beyond the smoke of right wing ignorance.
Again ... TEN thumbs UP !!
I find your reply repulsive and ignorant.. This President ran against everything Bush put in place.. And everything Obama has done right was keep those policies in place.. He hasn't passed a budget in over 762 days, even when he had congress, senate, and wh. He has spent more then every president we ever had combines in just 2 1/2 years.. ( 43 presidents) More people are unemployed, on foodstamps then any president, and he's out campaigning.. The bailout for GM, AIG, etc. was done by Bush.. Which 90% has now been paid back.. I can't help but disagree with you.. This President and you Demo-retards will have your ass handed to you in 2012..
The bank bailout was Bush's, the auto industry bailout was Obama's, which was hugely successful, saving ten's of thousands of jobs and reinvigorating an industry that had become a dinosaur. We all know what the banking industry did with a lot of their money - gave themselves huge bonuses.
The huge deficit spending was purely an attempt to save an economy that 8 years of Bush deregulation and corporate patronage had sent into a nosedive.
The failure to pass a budget was a result of GOP senators filibustering every attempt to pass one.
The only real failure of the Obama administration so far is his failure to successfully pass regulations to control the banking and financial sectors - they could still meltdown again just like they did in 2008. They were so concentrated on the universal healthcare reform that they missed the opportunity to pass financial regulations while they had a majority in both houses - assuming the GOP members of the senate weren't too disagreeable.
Hello?? Lights are on but your not home?? Obama had all 3 Branches of Government until November 2010.. Could have passed anything he wanted, including his 1.6 trillion dollar deficit that he has spent every year he has been president.. He has spent more then every president we ever had combined.. Bush left less then a trillion in debt after 8 years.. Obama has spent more then 5 trillion in only 2 years.. Another 4 years of Obama?? I don't think so.. He will most certainly have his ass handed to em in 2012 even if I have to run myself..He is no doubt a 1 term president and by far the worst in history..
He will most certainly have his ass handed to em in 2012 even if I have to run myself.
Ok why don't you run against him? LOL The debt went from about 6 trillion to 11 trillion under Bush. thats way more than less than a trillion. One big reason that the debt has gone up so much under Obama is the almost crashed economy that Bush left him. Less tax revenue coming in. A lot more people on unemployment and other government programs. Turn off FOX propaganda and Limbaugh.
Republican Math, 6 trillion in added debt by Bush becomes less than a trillion. Obama was left with a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit by Bush before Obama even took office and a structural deficit due to the Bush tax cuts, wars and other factors. This whole FOX news idiocy that the deficits are Obamas doing while the Republicans refuse to even end the oil subsidies show utter ignorance. Republicans have abandoned mathematics and logic in all they do and the American people are beginning to catch on.
Don't read much do you Tim, or you get you news from fixed news. There are 5 or 6 'blue dog consevative dems'...aka closet republicans, in congress that voted with the reichwingnuts every time therefor the dems DID NOT have a filibuster proof majority.
I have come to realize the Republicans only want ballsiness as a qualification. The BOLD plan is just so ballsy. Bold = ballsy. OK, I get it, praise the boldness.
Opposing the president, even to the detriment of the American people is all that matters. Tax cuts stay while we cut Medicare AGAINST the will of the people, ballsy.
They admired Bush for being ballsy, but how did his ballsiness work out for Americans? No OBL, but we entered Baghdad, ballsy, something that does not surprise me that we could do that, but why did we switch horses mid-stream? Oh, to be ballsy.
This is all bait and switch, as far as I can tell.
Well, let's be ballsy and ask to balance the budget pay down debt by going back to tax rates pre-Reagan and the debt, and deficit would tip the other way. Be ballsy for your kids if you are soooo concerned, be ballsy.
First of all for those who are claiming President Obama added 5 trillion in 2 years may not be aware that President Obama finally put both of Bush's wars and his tax cuts for billionaires onto the deficit.
Bush never added those "items" to the deficit.
The bottom line is President Clinton left office with a surplus....President Obama came into office with a huge deficit on his plate because Bush over spent Clintons surplus on 2 of his wars and tax cuts to his pals.
Thank goodness Lawrence spoke the truth!
AMEN !!!
Lawrence speaks out his @!$%#, nothing truthful with that except pardon me...
Tha haaretz link:
Tha haaretz link:
I am disappointed with Lawrence's rewrite tonight! Most American Jews were offended by President Obama's speech! We voted for the President by almost 80%! I am a strong supporter as well! I suggest that Lawrence investigate why this speech upset us so much. It has nothing to do with Netynahu's reaction and everything to do with the President!
"Most" American Jews did not appoint Michael Alan our spokesman. Please sit down.
To Michael, and the rest of you who were so "Upset and Disappointed" about the President's remarks, I wonder if you were equally outraged when the exact same proposal was put forth in a speech by Former President Bush The Jr. in 2008. Somehow I don't seem to remember any of the news commentators or politicians or fox and radio demagogues (H. L. Mencken, defined a demagogue as "one who will preach doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots." ) even mentioning it. .... Oh that's right he isn't black, he isn't a democrat and his name isn't Obama. My only disappointment in Mr. O'Donnell is that he did not include this info and the clip from the speech in this segment. The negative responses I read here only goes to prove further how divisive,vindictive, and narrow-minded the citizenry of Our Once Great Country have become.
Nothing like that at all.. It's that Obama is truly a dumb @!$%# and has no clue.. All he knows how to do is campaign, which is exactly what he is doing now instead of making a budget, dealing with unemployment, and the deficit..
Please tell me who said this:
"Now is the time to make difficult choices,". An agreement will require "painful concessions" by both sides."
"There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967. The agreement must establish Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people. These negotiations must ensure that Israel has secure, recognized, and defensible borders. And they must ensure that the state of Palestine is viable, contiguous, sovereign, and independent."
Answer: GWB Jan 10 2008...why is no one complaining about that?
http:/ /middleeast.about.com/od/documents/a/me070912b_2.htm
Above: remove the space between backslashes, copy and paste
and we find GWB said pretty much the same thing as the demonized Pres. Obama
Mr. O'Donnell:
Bravo to you! I was almost in tears to see someone in the press finally stand up and speak the truth. (sorry I should say mainstream media as there are many who have spoken that just don't get heard by the masses)
The country of Israel has taken over our foreign policy through AIPAC and our politicians have sold out their own people for a FOREIGN COUNTRY.
You speak for many Americans who are finally awakening to the truth! Thank you Larry!!!
Spoken like the true dumb ass that you are.. Get a clue then come find me..
All you have is name calling Tim?
Refute the facts! Refute that AIPAC and Dennis Ross, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, and the Israeli firsters havent taken over our foreign policy. Using the American taxpayers Treasury as a bank account for Israel???
Please stand up and speak to the facts.
Richard Perle steals Pentagon secrets and is caught giving them to Israel- yet nothing happens to him - he actually gets a promotion!!!???
Research the 'CLEAN BREAK DOCTRINE"
Research $$$4 BILLION IN NATURAL GAS RESERVES OFF THE COAST OF GAZA- see why Israel rips Hamas and blockades the waters. Israel is stealing the gas reserves by SLANT DRILLING.
1st of all Israel is one of our most closest friends and ally.. It's because of this administration that they even have to steal and scheme.. It wasn't until this pathetic democrat Obama administration that so much has gone wrong.. He is a dumb ass who thinks you can get on the job experience.. The only things he has done right is leaving in place all he ran against.. And they deserve to have anything they can take amungst sharks.. They are surrounded by people who want them dead.. What would you do dip@!$%#?!! Personally I would get out my army and start expanding territory..
I would stop this bull@!$%# of always playing defense and play alot of offense..
Yes and how are they our best "ally". Israel takes our tax dollars, our weapons, our defense and industrial secrets through the most aggressive espionage of any country against the US in the world.
Israel uses our diplomatic cover to violate international law.
Israel has murdered Americans without any recourse. Ask the survivors of the USS Liberty attack. Ask them what it was like to have Israelis bomb them with napalm in broad daylight in an effort to sink their defenseless ship. Ask them what it was like to get strafed by machine gun fire as they tried to get into life rafts.
Ask the families of Rachel Corrie, Tristan Anderson, Thomas Hurndall - what a wonderful ally Israel is.
If the definition of "ally" is to take take and take more from your "friend" well thats a friend we dont need.
Billions of dollars each year taken from our treasury through their control of our corrupt and spineless politicians.
You can repeat the same lies over and over again about our "ally"- but informed people know better.
Does an "ally" sell out over 150 of your secret agents that were behind the iron curtain? Over 150 agents were murdered when Israel sold our secrets to the Soviets.
Does an "ally" sell US stealth technology to China???
NO thanks!
i stopped watching msnbc after Olbermann left because Rachel Maddow nothing but a Zionist puppet. Rachel Maddow threw Obama underthe bus for Zionism. Now after I have read what you have said I must switch between current tv and your show. Please move to current tv
Rachel a Zionist?? She is just as @!$%#ed up as the rest on msnbc.. All you 10s of viewers are a sad ass case of what's wrong with this country..
Such loaded language is a clear indication of bias. Lawrence O'Donnell, in his scathing rant calling recent support of Israel "hysterics," calling those who support Israel all kinds of insulting names, has only shown his own ignorance on the subject. First, it would be nice if he would understand the difference between the words "lines," used correctly by President Obama, and "borders" used incorrectly over and over and over by people like O'Donnell who do not know the difference.
Does Mr. O'Donnell really think it would be the same for Obama to speak in Gaza today as it was for Clinton to speak there before the Hamas takeover there?
The big difference is that the final borders must be negotiated by the parties and no one else has a right to suppose any part of those negotiations.
There have been public calls in Egypt and Jordan for treaties with Israel to be annulled. Today's Middle East news reports that Egypt has approached Iran to renew relations. With those realities in today's Middle East, the questions that President Obama's speech - not only this week, but in the past - and misrepresentations of Prime Minister Netanyahu's speech in this country, it is not surprising that the poll cited by a previous poster here shows that Israeli support of Netanyahu and the Likud party has increased.
Finally, I really do wish all the talking heads in this country would learn to pronounce "Netanyahu." It isn't that hard - and certainly should not be for someone who is paid gobs of money for talking.
Bravo Lawrence.......the .people and some of the press didn't LISTEN to what Obama said.
thank you for your brilliant analysis...but I think it's also true that it costs Netanyahu
NOTHING to talk about his willingness to enter negotiations when his requirements
make negotiations impossible......right or wrong.......I think Netanyahu is content at the
moment to keep the situation static.
I was deeply diappointed with Lawrence's rewrite tonight! Most American Jews were deeply offended by President Obama's speech! We voted for him over 80%! I am a strong supporter of his as well! I suggest that Lawrence investigate why his speech upset us so much! It has nothing to do with Netynahu's reaction and everything to do with the President himself!
US - Israeli relationship is over as long as this president is in office. After that whole White House debacle, Obama is pissed, to him it's personal. Israel may now have to go about it on it's own. If Jewish people wants a friend in America again, they should support and vote for a new president.
Not at all.. In 2012 our country will have a real person for presidency not this @!$%# nut campaigner..
there are many reason's why barack obama will remain in office.
Great analysis Lawrence....It is clear that some of the people and some members of the
press did not LISTEN to what the President said. I also think that it's true that it cost
Netanyahu NOTHING to claim his readiness to negotiate. I think it suits Netanyahu
politically to keep Israel exactly where it is now. NOTHING HAS CHANGED standing
ovations not withstanding.
Kudos, Lawrence, for this brilliant "rewrite"! I'm a Jew and a supporter of Israel who fully supports President Obama's attempt to move the peace process forward. The parameters he discussed are the ones followed by the last three Presidents and the last two Israeli governments, and it's about time that we put them publicly on the table. Israel has nothing to lose by negotiating on these and seeking an agreement with strong security guarantees.
I was truly disappointed with Lawrence's 'inside" take on the political flap between Netenyahu and Obama. He refers to all these historical moments when the same thing happened and led to . . . . just what exactly, besides more speeches? Obviously most of you other commenters are bigger fans of Israel than I am, but did none of you see any arrogance in BiBi's talking about how "generous" Israel is prepared to be with the people they have had under martial law for almost 44 years? That's how long it has been since Israel occupied these lands through military conquest, and for 44 years the world, even the U.S. "officially", has been saying that this ocupation is illegal under international law - that the Palestinians cannot be thrown off the land they have lived on for generations, that Israel cannot colonize the land with its citizens. But down through all these years and all the milestones that Lawrence seems to see, the settlements have continually grown under every Israeli Prime Minister - as they were growing even as Netanyahu flew into our airspace. This is what made Mitchell quit in despair. Contrary to Lawrence's sense of an imminent deal in the works, this is the same old game that Israel has played all along. if you don't want to believe it, fine. But read this letter again in 5 years and see if anything has changed at all. And if you wonder why all the Arabs hate us, here's a great place to start. The rights of the Palestinians, their children's rights, the decency to recognize their humanity as a people with a history and a need for statehood fills us with indifference, while with a clean conscience we have bankrolled with money and guns Israel"s right to herd and brutalize them into submission.
Hey, thanks for the education on this. I have a newsletter from a Jewish group that was not condemning Pres, Obama for what he said. I thought what he said was pretty much what most folks would agree is how the 2 State solution should be put in motion.
That clip about Israel leaders always have to act outraged so the Palestinians will not reject it right off. Makes sense.
Of course the right wingers will make it sound like he is calling for Israel's downfall and ours.
Lawrence, you missed a wrinkle in interpreting the "outside those borders" language in Netanyahu's speech. He didn't just imply that some settlements outside the '67 borders would have to be included inside Israel's negotiated border. He also, to my ear, implied that some of the current settlements would end up outside the negotiated borders, in the Palestinian state.
That could be a huge step forward.
That is exactly the way I heard it too. Some of the settlements will be outside the negotiated borders, and will have to be dismantled, just the way the settlements in Gaza were. Lawrence totally misunderstood.
I second. While I share Lawrence's observation about the hysterics, I think he's trying to be too clever by half here in order to sustain his - imho faulty - thesis that Obama and Netanyahu are mor or less on the same path. I do appreviate that some Kabuki dancing by Israeli PMs is warranted for in order to placate members of the own coalition and even party - there has been quite harsh critique from those camps. To me it only proves that the degree of intransency varies within the current Israeli government.
But no, is not all Kabuki: You don't continue settlements as if they were bargaining chips in later negotiations - or if you do so you are unacceptably cynical with the lives not only of Palestinians but your own Israeli citizens as well. Let there be no doubt: Bibi is not interested in a two-state solution, he thinks that delaying any solution is the best way for his political survival. And he might entertain the illusion that he can wear the Palestinians down into grudging acceptance of the occupation of "Judea and Samaria".
In the contest of realism, I think Obama wins hands down and Bibi is the illusionist.
YOU are america's hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has finally happened a journalist has aknowledged you cannot talk ahbout israel, wow and he did it in a smart way totally bulletproof!!!!!!! we know jews in america and israel have no interestat all in peace but he couldnt say that he would be fired tommorow so he deftly opened up the pandoras box with this "israel wants us to make them do the right thing" i love it!!!!!!!!!!! this will open the real debate of dual loyalty and aipac treason. love it love it love it!!! he even showed schumer's treason ha ha and koch YOU ARE KING KING KING.
Obama wants to raise $1 billion dollars for his reelection campaign right? Well you could say sayanora to that because you know half of it will come from Jewish contributions. This will be an easy win for Republicans on 2012.
You may stand with Obama, but he doesn't stand with you. He doesn't like anti-Semites anymore than I do.
You didn't understand what Lawrence said at all. If Israel likes a peace plan, Palestinians will reject it out of hand. So the US has to be seen to force it on Israel, and then the Palestinians will accept it. Then Israel can accept it, which they wanted to do all along. Does that help?
the republicans will not win in 2012.
LO you love questioning other's intellect while you never question your own. Take the statement concerning 1967 borders and mutually negotaited swaps. If 1967 equals 100 then mutually negotiated swaps will still have to be close to 100 or no deal. I think Israel would rather start with 2011 borders and do the swaps. LO you obviously have an agent negotiating your contract. This is a bit more reality than either you or the president can handle.
Yeah LO doesn't worry too much about those facts does he. You think he would be o.k. with someone shooting bombs at his family ( if he has one). It would probably be o.k. with LO if Russia came over and wanted to reset our borders with Mexico. I wonder why he bothers to get up in the morning. Do you think that he thinks that he actually is having an impact?