annnotherman:

pharmacist give you something good today?

Bachmann is a dim bulb, no doubt about that.

I respond to you, ged, because you have it exactly right on the "bought and sold" (see Scott Walker and the Kochsucker brothers).

The incredible level of ignorance by the American voter explains the Bachman phenomenom.

One more point, I found the original "light bulb" campaign on-line when I first saw Bachman on Chris Matthews over a year ago. I find it amazing that more was not made of it at the time. Our liberal friends in the media do a poor job of exposing the Bachman-type psychos.

When someone doesn't know how to spell, it suggests that they are lazy thinkers...particularly when all they have to do is click on spellcheck. Lazy thinkers are fairly good at repeating (with garbled grammar and limited understanding) something they've heard or read, but since we've all probably heard or read the same things, they rarely add anything of substance to the conversation.

They also tend to use insults instead of arguments, resist change (but offer no solutions of their own), are suspicious of intelligence and nearly always hate liberals.

I'm hoping for a Palin/Bachman ticket. You won't be able to tell the difference between the real campaign debacles and the SNL satires.

They've painted themselves into a corner with the last few decades of whipping their followers into an ignorant frenzy and giving every hate-filled blowhard center stage. Their base will only vote for extremists, and no extremist can win in the general.

I travel all over the country and engage in conversation with people from all walks of life and from every corner of the country. I am happy to report that I'm hearing a lot of positive talk out there about Sarah Palin running and from what I can tell she has a very, very good chance of winning the next Presidential election. Finally I can put the American flag up on my house again that I took down the day after election day in 2008.

Wonderful! I love to hear that someone supports Palin for president. As I already said...a Palin/Bachman ticket would be ideal. Charlie Sheen can't keep this up forever and we'll need new material.

Finally I can put the American flag up on my house again that I took down the day after election day in 2008.

Nobody is stopping you from having it up now. You are an American, are you not?

The very fact that you took it down before the man was even inaugurated speaks volumes about you.

On the other hand, maybe you should leave it down. If Palin (or any rightie) gets elected you'll be flying the colors of EXXON soon enough.

How funny! Thanks for that post.

She must have just found out her easybake oven wont work anymore

That was exactly what I was thinking.

Although I have to say one thing in defense of incandescent bulbs: In colder climates they are better for outdoor use than compact fluorescent bulbs. It takes forever for the new ones to light up when they are sitting in single-degree or lower temperatures.

When I let my dog outside at night in the winter, he has been back in the house and asleep for 30 minutes before the damn outdoor fixture actually lights the back porch, and even then it is pretty dim in comparison to the light it gives off in the summer.

And I do want to see all retailers selling these bulbs start recycling programs (to reduce the mercury added to landfills) the way that Home Depot has. I realize we are saving energy by using these bulbs, but we need to dispose of them safely, and not everyone is conscientious enough to package their burned-out or broken bulbs in those special containers that they then mail off at personal expense.

http://eponline.com/articles/2009/11/19/the-proper-package-for-fluorescent-lamps.aspx

The packaging concerns are problematic, but another alarming statistic is the number of fluorescent bulbs that are not being recycled. Despite the environmental, health and legal risks associated with lack of compliance, some consumers and businesses continue to discard fluorescent lamps improperly (see related story). EPA estimates that over 670 million mercury-containing lamps are discarded annually in the United States. That number is expected to increase as CFLs — more than 300 million are sold annually — grow in popularity among consumers.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bachmann is a loon. But we do need to do something about the risks that the fluorescent bulbs pose.

Power production, especially coal, which represents 45% of U.S. electrical power consumption, releases mercury into the environment. Because of reduced power consumption the use of a CFL results in a net decrease in the amount of mercury released into the environment when compared to an incandescent light bulb.

The incandescents make pefect dog house warmers....

I agree the CFL startup time makes them impractical for many "quick uses" such as closets and bathrooms... it only takes me a minute to comb my hair, but how much power am I saving if I wait 5 minutes for the light to be bright enough to see in the closet.

the new LED lamps are instant on, and very very bright... and save 95% over an incandescent. CFL's are already obsolete. especially sinces LED's are mostly silicone (sand) and very very very little mercury.

most of the west coast power is non-coal, mostly hydro-electric, so CFL use in California results in increase mercury release, only in the coal dense appalaich east coast power, would power consumption reduce mercury levels.

#10.1: Don't get me wrong, I think Bachmann is a loon. But we do need to do something about the risks that the fluorescent bulbs pose.

Yep! Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and in this instance I agree with Bachmann (in all else, I can't stand her)!

We just ordered enough incandescent bulbs to last us about 10 years, because we loathe those newfangled fluorescent disasters.

LED bulbs cost about $50 each right now, or we'd be happy to switch to those. So, we stocked up on incandescent bulbs in the hope that LED prices will eventually make those practical. The fluorescent pieces of crap serve no purpose other than to make some dictatorial idiots rich. They are a con-job and among the very worst con-jobs. I can't think of one positive thing to say about them, and they're not even fit for the trash heap.

So, yeah... on this issue, I agree with Bachmann.

Thank you bitemore! Until I learned of the hazards that CFL's pose, I was clueless! I plan on stocking up on incandescents as well. I don't need to be told to call a HAZmat team if a stupid bulb happens to break. I mean, really!

Hubby's garage is full of fluorescent large tubes, but that has never been a problem for us.

I have had CFLs in about 3/4s of my lights for about 3 years now. None have burnt out yet. You have to get the decent daylight ones, the cheap ones aren't worth a crap at all.

The good ones cost about $4 a piece and unless Al Gore own stock in GE, nothing.

went to ceolas. too many words!!!

Seriously, if you think Bachman is crazy with this bulb "campaign", read ceolas for about 5 minutes. mind-numbing!!!

Warning, it could make you suicidal.

Ceolas turns off any lights you may have had in your brain. Self-serving. The kind of thing politicians use to defend a senseless idea.

Because I don't kiss Bat-Sh!t-Crazy Bachmann's ass I am a dem automatically?

So you'd rather give a ton of money to terrorists in the middle east for oil than a little more to a light bulb company?

They are more cost efficient thereby helping get us of the oil teat, unless you think giving terrorist and/or dictators money for oil is a good idea.

The better ones have trace amounts of toxic substances, but the thing you are posting on is chock full of toxic materials too.

You think trace amounts do not add up Stone5150? How many bulbs used in a year? And we use coal mined here in America to run most power generating plants not oil. And attempting to link terrorism to light bulbs speaks for itself. You are not concerned with the environment sir just with making water cooler points.

So less coal burnt to light stuff is a bad thing?

Just pointing out how woefully uninformed you are concerning the environmental issues Stone.

1.

While incandescent lamps convert 95% of electricity into heat, and only 5% into light, CFL convert more than 80% electricity into light. Hence less loss of energy as heat.

2.

CFL work without any problem in a wide voltage range (170 - 250V) thus having in-built resistance to power fluctuations.

3.

Generate 80% less heat, hence reduces load on air-conditioners.

4.
CFL consume less energy (70-80%), thus saving on electricity bills.

5.

Low maintenance cost.

6.

Each kWh saved equals average saving of 0.8 Kg Carbon Dioxide in energy production by gas, coal, fuel power plants thus conserving natural resources.

Over the rated life of the CFL, which is 10,000 hours, it could reduce our CO2 production by around 1180 kg (2,600 lbs) and save us around $177 as our electric rate is just over $0.15/kw^.

I can't believe people would argue about something so braindead beneficial. I use CFL's and haven't changed a lightbulb in years. When I do, there are places to take the old ones so they don't end up contaminating a landfill. Anyone too stupid or lazy to do that doesn't deserve to live. I'm so sick of selfish, entitled people who think it is their right to damage the planet because it's just easier for them than getting off their ass and making a tiny effort.

What's sad is that I worked at a location where we dealt with spills and contamination on a daily basis--I'm talking overturned gas tankers on highways, spills onto rivers, etc. I've since left the company, and several of the guys I worked with have, as well, but the owner and those who remain have told me in no uncertain terms that they're not thrilled about the use of CFLs in households--because a lot of their most recent cleanup has been over a stupid CFL that's been broken (and because homeowners shouldn't deal with the debris, these guys are often called) and their time and expenses are not even remotely covered even if they cleaned up 2000 CFLs in just one location.

So, really, it's a matter of practicality. Do you have to use a CFL when the benefit is so minimal at the moment and the risks so much greater for the general public? I say forget about it, keep your incandescents, and invest in the LEDs when they come down in price--which, at the rate things go, shouldn't be long at all.

2600 POUNDS of CO2 can be prevented from going into our environment for every single CFL bulb used. You call that minimal??????

There are drop off boxes for them (Home Depot, for example) that are relatively convenient. If I broke one, I'd clean it up myself (it's mercury, not anthrax) and dispose of it properly, as I'm sure 99.999% of sane people would do.

Well you cant count on librals then.

You do know that the Bachmann, the one opposing the switch to CFLs, is a hard core teapublican, right?

You don't even follow your own arguments much less anyone else's.

CFL's use an entirely different technology than incandescents, one that uses over 80% less energy. I'm not entirely sure how you can screw that up, but if that's the reason that you oppose it ...then it appears you are running out of reasons.

Yes, some people will still be utter selfish idiots and toss them in landfills. I doubt they will make a dent on the amount of corporate pollutions that get dumped into our air and water and land by the hundreds of tons on a daily basis. Most people will be responsible. If you keep one of these bulbs burning for 8 hours a day, every day of the year, it would take 3 1/2 years to burn out. If someone can't make a special trip once every three or four years to dispose of them...well...there's something seriously wrong.

If everyone used them it would make a significant impact on the amount of energy we use as a nation. Which will make a significant impact on the amount of overall pollution and our reliance on foreign oil. It's a small thing to do, and you'd think that any reasonable person would immediately see the benefits and make the change at once. There will always be some people who will fight for their "right" to use what they are accustomed to, resisting any change, even for the better, just because that's what they always do. I'm all for freedom of personal choices when they don't harm others, but in this case, choosing to use the old method adds to pollution and energy consumption, which hurts us all.

And what are going to do with them when are ready to be disposed of NotKidding? Are you aware of the mercury slag heaps in India from used computer equipment? How many CFL bulbs does it take to become a health hazard? What do you do if one breaks in your home? What do you do if your kid breaks one and is exposed? Again this is armchair environmentalism by people who just want to feel good about themselves and of course make a healthy profit from it. It will do more harm in the long run than good. And as armchair "greenies" so hysterically put it we are running out of time. We cannot afford to create another problem. It will be years before they have any impact and by then you will try and have millions of folks plugging in electric cars there by negating any savings in energy costs or reduction in pollution from coal fired energy plants.

We should be building nuclear plants as well, but it is alarmist idiots that have prevent it.

It's mercury...not anthrax. Mercury is a problem when it gets into the food chain, not a problem when you have to clean up a broken bulb. There is far more mercury in a single common thermometer (about 125 times as much) as a CFL bulb, but I don't see anyone screaming about them or having a panic attack if one gets broken. What a load of manufactured hysteria.

From the EPA:

EPA estimates the U.S. is responsible for the release of 103 metric tons of mercury emissions each year. More than half of these emissions come from coal-fired electrical power. Mercury released into the air is the main way that mercury gets into water and bio-accumulates in fish. (Eating fish contaminated with mercury is the main way for humans to be exposed.)

Most mercury vapor inside fluorescent light bulbs becomes bound to the inside of the light bulb as it is used. EPAestimates that the rest of the mercury within a CFL – about 11 percent– is released into air or water when it is sent to a landfill, assuming the light bulb is broken. Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs sold in 2009 were sent to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury emissions caused by humans.

So by using these bulbs, even if every single one of them was tossed into a landfill, we can actually reduce the amount of mercury being pumped into our air every single day by coal-fired electricity plants.

Since you have made it clear that you are very very very concerned about mercury...I'm sure that will be enough to make you...see the light.

If every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, in one year it would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. That would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 cars.

Don't last as long? I take it you don't have any?

They last for 10,000 hours. That's about 10 times longer than a regular bulb. Their cost is nowhere near 10 times as much, so they are far less expensive, and they save you a considerable amount on electric bills so they more than pay for themselves.

I put a bunch on 3 years ago, none have burnt out yet, in the meantime about 10 incandescents have and were replaced with more CFLs.

Next argument I imagine will be that they are pigtail-like and weird looking.

I don't have a problem using CFLs. I just dont like this idea that the Govt. has to pass this goody goody ban on incandescents, denying me the option of using them for certain applications, to make people use CFLs. The product should sell itself, not be imposed by Govt. mandate...

The gov't is doing lots of bad things to us, this seems like a pretty stupid thing to make a stand about. If a light bulb choice, or lack thereof, was my biggest problem, I would be ecstatic.

Normally I'd agree with you Randilly, but in this case not using them has an adverse effect on everyone. When people's choices harm others, I think it's appropriate for the government to step in.

You can see for yourself that people are choosing the most asinine reasons to stubbornly cling to their old-fashioned incandescents, so leaving it up to the unwashed masses to make the best choice for the country would only drag this out for decades and do more harm in the process.

so leaving it up to the unwashed masses to make the best choice for the country would only drag this out for decades and do more harm in the process.

Unwashed Masses?????

Very illustrative, of the kind of mentality that advocates Government Mandates.

"(Great) Unwashed Masses" is a term for the general public. It is hard to believe you've never heard of it before. Fake outrage yet again?

As Stone said, it's simply a rude way to say 'general public'. Given that I was talking about people too stubbornly stuck with their 'old ways' to see any sense and do what would benefit them and everyone else, it applied. I doubt it illustrates anyones 'mentality' except my own.

As I said though, I don't normally advocate "government mandates" but since this is an issue that effects all of us, when people continue to do something that is harmful to the rest of us, for absolutely no good reason, then I'm ok with the government stepping in and mandating that they stop...since nothing else will make them stop.

So your solution is to do nothing because CFLs only use 70% less energy. Brilliant!

Yep NotKidding you are right. But rarely does anyone apply electricity to a thermometer.

Huh? We were talking about mercury in landfills...not electric thermometers.

And it is not a load of hysteria it is a viable question that has not been addressed by these people who are forcing these hazardous objects on the public.

Um...yes it has. There are designated places to take the used bulbs to avoid the possibility of mercury contamination in the landfills. Although if you throw out a thermometer, you have tossed the equivalent of 125 CFL bulbs into the trash. The bulbs are NOT 'hazardous"...that's pure hyperbole. Actually....no....it's a flat out lie. Using them results in LESS mercury in the environment, so if you want to play that game, it's the incandescents that are 'hazardous'.

Yet another not addressed is the fact that many bodies of fresh water are already contaminated by mercury and these bulbs will simply add to an already existing problem.

THERE IS MORE MERCURY PUMPED INTO OUR ENVIRONMENT ON A DAILY BASIS BY COAL-FIRED ELECTRICITY THAN ANY OTHER SOURCE. These bulbs use 80% LESS electricity, so they result in LESS mercury in the environment, even if you threw every last one of them in the trash. One 13W CFL (equivalent to 60W incandescent) will save 376 kw over it's lifetime, and even if it is tossed into a landfill, will result in 3.9 mg LESS mercury in the environment. If it is properly recycled, that goes up to 4.3 mg. Your 60W incandescent bulb will add 5.5 mg of mercury just to run it...while the CFL bulb only takes 1.6 mg. So if you actually ARE concerned about mercury in the environment, you will rush out today and change all your lights.

And I 'm sorry but I think I will trust my instincts on this one not the information provided by entities that are forcing this down my throat.

Which is precisely WHY they have to "force it down your throat". You are ignoring every fact in favor of your "instincts" which seem to be guiding you to do your part to add more mercury into our environment.

You really think they would tell anyone that they are dangerous? Or is the danger a long term thing and these folks will be past prosecution by the time we find it is to late?

We've been using mercury for centuries. Seriously. You are exaggerating the "dangers" to an absolutely ridiculous degree. You get more mercury from eating a can of tuna than you'd get from a lifetime of using CFL's. 75 percent of human exposure worldwide to mercury is from the consumption of marine fish and shell fish.

And using incandescents hurts everyone? How so? Are they just going to shut down the power plants is the atmosphere just going to become healthy again over night?

If we are using less energy, then we are using less coal-fired energy generation. Which means less pollution. If we have the means to use less, and out of ignorance or stupity, we refuse to do so...then we are needlessly adding to the pollution of our planet, which hurts everyone.

It took centuries to get to this point it will take an equal amount of time to fix it if we can. Penny ante CFL bulbs are not a solution to anything other than guilt.

It takes less than an hour to change all the bulbs in your house...and if everyone did it, it would reduce our energy consumption OVERNIGHT. Not in centuries. It's not going to end all pollution, but it will make a significant difference. It will help slow the damage we are doing. If you can't see the value in that...then you are precisely why there HAS to be a ban on incandescents.

No I did not say that at all. But that is a fine jump to conclusion Stone, Olympic quality.

It was the conclusion you claim to have come to....using your "instincts".

Instead of forcing everyone to use these bulbs why not a voluntary program with significant discounts or credit on your local utility bill?

These bulbs have been around for years. You could have voluntarily used them and saved all sorts of money on your electric bill. There have been government run programs for ages that will come into your house and give you a bunch of these bulbs for FREE. Nothing has stopped you...except, perhaps...your "instincts".

I was thinking about NotKidding's stats up there I was wondering if those are the same folks who said lead in paint was ok or approved CFC's or DDT or PCB's.

You do realize we've learned a few things since the 40's right? Are you equally afraid of your computer? Or your television? Your cell phone? Are you generally paranoid about every new thing on the market? Although CFL's have been around since the early 80's so they aren't exactly new anymore.

Yes I know they took those products off the markets in the US but they re still being used around the world. And they did not take them off market until after the damage was done I might add. The single greatest contribution to saving the planet mankind can make is to think before we act.

Then again...that could just be an excuse for not acting at all...since the thinking has already been done and all you are offering here are vague and unvalidated fears. If you fear mercury, then you will use CFL's because they reduce mercury in the environment. They also reduce our dependance on energy. They also reduce your electric bill. You haven't come up with a single reason (only your imaginary fears) to not use them.

And what did it take to learn those things Notkidding? How many were poisoned? Died got cancer were born deformed? How many are still suffering to this day since we learned something????? No you just jumped to the same conclusion Stone did with absolutely no evidence. You are the reason government should not be allowed to force a mandate upon the people. E-fuel how many are going die around the world from rising food costs thanks to that little mandate? I do not own a car I recycle everything. I use candles and oil lamps in place of electric lights when possible. I even pick-up trash as I walk from place to place. Not acting at all?? Hardly. In point of fact unlike armchair greenies I'm not an actor. I will make this easy for you. You cannot change this basic equation no matter your stats:

Mercury=poison=bad

More Mercury=bad........... Get it? It says right on your box of CFL bulbs hazardous waste contact local authorities before disposal. Right on the box. You won't find that warning on incandescents. And do you really think consumption will go down or do you think that most Americans will figure with these niffty bulbs we can leave all the light on now? I have given at least 4 reasons not to use them. I am sure the guy who opposed CFC's just had imaginary fears too. You must own stock in GE

We have worked with mercury for CENTURIES. We KNOW what it does. We KNOW it's poison. That's why we want LESS of it in the environment.

Mercury=poison=bad

More Mercury=bad........... Get it?

Yes...I do. You seem to have a problem understanding it though. Your incandescent bulbs result in MORE MERCURY in the environment. So, by your own admission, we should all switch to CFLs.

I have given at least 4 reasons not to use them.

I haven't seen one yet...perhaps you could list them?

You must own stock in GE

I live on the planet. That makes me an interested party when people like you refuse to do the responsible thing and reduce the amount of pollution you generate.

I have long since given up trying to convince you of anything...I just wanted to see how far you would be willing to take your arbitrary refusal to face reality.

The facts ARE in. We know all about mercury and what it does. It's nasty stuff. So anything that reduces the amount we are spewing into the air or leeching into the water is a good thing. Which means the CFL's are good things. Pretending there is something we don't yet know about mercury...or CFLs...is just silly and it's making you look a bit foolish.

I already have reduced my pollution by getting rid of my vehicle.

Guess you missed this:

If every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, in one year it would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. That would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 cars.

Wouldn't it be easier to just change a lightbulb?

Wouldn't it be easier to just change a lightbulb?

I dunno, I'd have to divert my shopping cart to the lightbulb aisle next time I went shopping. Then haul the step ladder all the way out of the garage, then take off the cover, twist the old one out, then after all that I'd have to do all that stuff in reverse with the new bulb. Way too much commitment. :P

@ Stone: do I sense a fear of commitment? *lol!* Thanks for the lighthearted post--that was great!

I changed my bulbs years ago. I dunno what bologony is but it sounds painful to spew.

Screw CFLs. LED lights are even more energy efficient, don't contain mercury, and last much, much longer.